New Guy/ Rally Advice

Howdy all, FNG here (Blue Thunder reference)

I have been a GRM reader for at least 10 years but unfortunately it took me this long to make it here.

I just joined up because I figured that you “guys” would be able to help me out with the madness I am thinking of getting myself into next. I would like to start Rally Racing. I don’t plan on taking it to the extreem and go out to win races or championships, that takes the fun out of sometimes. I just want to get out to a few select events each year and have some fun. The problem is that I know NOTHING about Rally Racing aside from what I see on TV or what I have read in GRM.

I checked out Rally Americas site and looked at their rules/classes but of course I have a million and one questions about what I can and can not do as far as building a car. They have forum but it doesn’t seem to get any traffic and certainly not the kind that can answer the questions I have.

Like anything else going to a few events is a good way to start because you can look at the cars, talk to the drivers pick the brains of the tech inspectors, etc. The problem is that the only scedules I can seem to find are national level stuff. Anyone know where I can find an event schedule that covers Michigan and the surrounding states? I would like to attend some events as a spectator. I am not very interested in RallyCross, I'm leaning toward "Stage Rally" if you will.

And if someone has expirience with class structures, car specifications, etc that would be fantastic. I would love to pick your brain.

So there ya go, new guy with a million and one questions.

Thanks for your help!

www.specialstage.com will answer all of your questions It is THE site for rallying information in north america.

You will find Rally America (now actually RallyCar, but the stage rally championship remains named Rally America) does not pay much attention to their own regionals, sometimes making information hard to find. On the main page of the Rally America website, you can go to the top and there is a "drop down" list of events under the Regional Events tab. You are lucky, as there are lots of events relatively close to Michigan!

Good luck, and hopefully you can get something going for yourself

Thanks! That is exactly what I need.

I don't know if it works for you, but...

Race ready rally car for $2500

I was gonna say, buy cheap rally ready race car, drive it like you mean it, learn, have fun, take your time, fix whatever breaks a few times, learn, have fun, drive it harder, fix whatever breaks, learn, have fun, oh did I mention have fun?

If you want to race vs fix stuff, get something that works, doesn't have to be fast or competitive, just safe and reliable. If you get in over your head with a 'project' car you'll never get racing...

In reply to Zomby woof:

Thanks for the link. Unfortunatly I will probably be shooting myself in the foot and doing something stupid as far as a car goes. In the spring I am launching an aftermarket parts business that mostly supplies parts for supercharged S197 Mustangs that I designed (intakes, intercoolers, drive systems, etc). So I am surrounded by S197 Mustangs and want to race around in something with a tie in to the business. I have piles of spare drivetrains, 2 chassis, etc, etc, etc and have sponsorship from a place that gets Fords test vehicles when they are done with them. If its OEM I can get just about anything for free.

So I will most likely be taking a crack at Rally with a huge RWD V-8………brilliant!

I love driving sideways though, so that should work out well.

I may have to check back in on this thread after this weekend.

I'm going up to Team O'Neil to do a rally school and I'm pretty sure I'll be drooling for a rallyX project by Sunday.

The last weekend of January is the Snodrift Rally. It starts friday at Lewiston MI and ends satuday at Hillman MI. Most of the stages are in the Atlanta area. It is a fun event with some great spots to view the action. I go with a group of friends and have a great time. If you go let me know.

If you want a co-driver, give me a buzz. I love RWD rally.

The nice thing about building a RWD v8 is that you're nearly uninhibited as far as modification is concerned.

Basically: Build the cage according to spec, get some nice seats, then go crazy. Two people you will want to try and track down: Mark Utect, he's a long-time Mustang advocate and actually used a 2010 Mustang GT for an event last year (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHEza6b7tjU); and Mike Hurst, he's the technical director for RallyCar (formerly RallyAmerica) so he can help with and rule grey areas you think you're running into, and he's also a huge fan of Ford RWD.

I'd be happy to try and answer any questions you have, I've been part of stage rally in one form or another since 1998, including codriving for both rally cars that Per built for GRM.

Freaking awesome project, you can also keep me in mind for silly seat and or other help also, NW Ohio is my location and I have been involved with the Oz Rally scene as a co-driver, stage worker, organizer and general extra set of hands for years prior to coming to the US.

Read the Rally America (RallyCar) rule book. You will learn much.

"A Novice Drivers License will restrict a driver to compete only in a Group 2, Production or Open Light Class car."

This one limits your possible car choices.

There's three different sanctioning bodies for Stage Rally in the US:

Rally-America (RallyCar, whatever) Nasa Rallysport (http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/) Rally New York (http://www.rallynewyork.com/)

It looks like, in your neck of the woods, you've primarily got R-A events (both regional and national).

Really, the best way to get started, is to attend a rally. The best spectating opportunities come from volunteering - we always need more road marshals. But - don't expect to have an action packed day. Usually, road marshalling involves heading out to your spot, sitting around all day, and seeing the cars go by once or twice. 9 times out of 10, spectating will involve the exact same thing - so why not help out the folks putting on the rally?

Another good way to get started is to crew for a team at a rally. Just about any team is happy to have more crew - just ask on the specialstage forums.

As far as actually getting/building a car and doing events - the biggest thing to know is just how expensive it is. As a rough comparison - I could buy/build a spec miata, and run ~8 race weekends at my local track (~45 minutes away), with a fairly luxurious budget (ie. not running the same set of tires for the entire year) for about the same cost as I could buy/build a 2wd rally car, and run 2 events on a shoestring budget.

When you compare the finances to road racing, rally just doesn't make sense.

But - there's nothing else like it, and it's an addiction.

(Also, as a 2wd guy, you need to check out http://max-attack.com/ - the most meaningful competition for rally cars in the US!)

LSPR 2010

2010 Lake Superior Regional Rally - October 15-16, 2010 starts tomorrow up in Houghton. MI

^^^ Yes. If you're from Ypsilanti, you need to make it out to LSPR. Michigan is kind of a hotbed (at least a warm one) for Rally in the US.

Also, look up Doug and/or Scott Harvey. They're SCCA members and 2nd generation Rally competitiors. Super nice guys, too.

IIRC, their dad campaigned a Barracuda in a couple of World Rally events, and the team won a big one in 1968.

I have been reading GRM for years and always figured the reader base was pretty cool, but you guys are over the top! Most forums, especialy anything to do with “racing” are inhently negative. Not the case here. I guess that would make the GRM forum the “Anti Forum….forum”.

Thanks for all the responses and great information. I am going to have to sit down tonight and read through everything and get schooled. One thing that did jump out is the Rally in Houghten Lake, MI this weekend. Is it all weekend? If I were to squirt up on Saturday is there a lot to see/do or is Sunday the better day? What time does things kick off? And most importantly, anyone have an address that I can punch in my GPS to get there?

Thanks for all the replies. I’ll take a look at them tonight but right now I need to get out of here and to the machine shop!

Thanks!

In reply to RoadRacer78:

Houghton or Houghton Lake? Lake Superior Rally that is this weekend is way up in the UP Houghton. 10 hrs, give or take, from you.

This weekends rally is in the UP not Houghton Lake.

Crew first. It is best if you understand how a rally functions on someone else's dime. People will let you do it for free.

Then learn to drive.

Rally, actual rally up front and in person, was described to me best as "An all day long plane crash."

Also the costs are astromonic vs. road racing. I was once told that each rally you attedn can easily cost you $1500 and that dosen't include actually breaking anything.

Tow up and back, (rallies are not close like A/X or even like race tracks), plus 3-4 days in a hotel or campground, + having to buy food for your crew some of the time(hey they sleep on the floor and survive on cheetos and coffee.) + entry fees = spensive... Wait till you smack a tree as well.

As far as actually getting/building a car and doing events - the biggest thing to know is just how expensive it is. As a rough comparison - I could buy/build a spec miata, and run ~8 race weekends at my local track (~45 minutes away), with a fairly luxurious budget (ie. not running the same set of tires for the entire year) for about the same cost as I could buy/build a 2wd rally car, and run 2 events on a shoestring budget.

When you compare the finances to road racing, rally just doesn't make sense.

But - there's nothing else like it, and it's an addiction.

Your right there is nothing like it, The people involved in rally are like no else I have raced against. Nicest most genuine and hard core beyond anything I have seen

As far as getting involved sounds like you want to build the moostang, get yourself to Team Oniel.

In reply to alfadriver:

Doh! My snomo-billy brain read that all wrong. I was all set to drive up. No way I can get away for 20hrs of driving plus an event this weekend.

What a fantastic start to a rally hobby. I can’t even get the body of land it is taking place on right!

ignorant wrote: Crew first. It is best if you understand how a rally functions on someone else's dime. People will let you do it for free.

For FREE! Really! Well if I am going to attend some events before jumping in I may as well work. No problem there. Fine advice my good man.

ignorant wrote: Then learn to drive.

That’s the fun part.

ignorant wrote: Rally, actual rally up front and in person, was described to me best as "An all day long plane crash."

Sounds like racing Daytona.

ignorant wrote: Also the costs are astromonic vs. road racing. I was once told that each rally you attedn can easily cost you $1500 and that dosen't include actually breaking anything. Tow up and back, (rallies are not close like A/X or even like race tracks), plus 3-4 days in a hotel or campground, + having to buy food for your crew some of the time(hey they sleep on the floor and survive on cheetos and coffee.) + entry fees = spensive... Wait till you smack a tree as well.

This is actualy the part that I am looking forward too. Roadracing motorcycles at the front is STUPID expensive. My tire bill is at least $1500/weekend and then of course you have everything else on the above list as well. And like hitting trees, falling down will cost you. A minimum of $1500, and if you write the bike off (written off four) and most of your gear there goes $30-75K like magic. I won’t pretend for a second that I expect rally to be inexpensive. I imagine it’s a lot like combining the cost of roadracing with the parts breakage of off-roading…..with a thin layer of the aformentioned plane crash to top things off. A fine combination indeed. But not having to spoon tires on every 10 seconds will SEEM a lot less expensive. Thanks for the heads up. I know I have lots of learnin’ to do and I apreciate all the good advice. I am way out of my element here. Two wheels to four. Tarmac to…..everything else. What could go wrong?

or if you are going to go big for racing off road, then go off road racing...lots of action there also i think....or if you like mustangs, there is carmero/mustang challange road racing series also for ideas.... but in any case good luck with anything..... there is also the case for going to school and renting a car for the weekend in a race of anytype. that you can can see just what the event is like and dont have to pay for towing or crew, just have to pay for the car if you write it off...

dmcmah0n wrote: Read the Rally America (RallyCar) rule book. You will learn much. "A Novice Drivers License will restrict a driver to compete only in a Group 2, Production or Open Light Class car." This one limits your possible car choices.

What gets one a “Coefficient” (or better yet, what is it?). I see that a driving school can be worth up to four but I am not seeing what gets you the additional ones needed to reach 9. Do you get one per sucessful event? Can you get multiple Coefficients per event? How are they dolled out?

I see mention of a “driver with significant previous automobile racing expirience” may apply for an unrestricted licence. Anyone ever heard of “significant previous motorcycle racing expirience” being applicable? Without wanting to come off as overly confident or arrogant……. I’ve got tons of that, multiple series champinionships, tons of race wins, 5 lap records, and I am sure I can get some members of the sanctioning bodies to sign off. I’m not looking to cut to the front of the line. I certainly will be expiriencing an new element that I will need to get to grips with. But, I certainly wouldn’t mind some sort of fast track to an unrestricted licence being available if I am feeling comfortable and the powers that be approve.

What gets one a “Coefficient” (or better yet, what is it?). I see that a driving school can be worth up to four but I am not seeing what gets you the additional ones needed to reach 9. Do you get one per sucessful event? Can you get multiple Coefficients per event? How are they dolled out?

it's kind of like experience points. the number of coefficients a rally is worth varies based on number of competitive stage miles. a short one day rally might be worth 1 point and a longer 2 day event is worth 5 points but you only get them if you finish.

a 4 day rally school and a 2 day rally may get you 9 coefficients.

Group 2 and open light cars are plenty fast enough to ball up in the trees.