I bought a miata last year to daily and to try my hand at autocross.
I've yet to bite the bullet and give it a shot, so SWMBO offered to sign me up for the SCCA starting line autocross school as a gift.
https://www.scca.com/pages/sl-autocross
It's a really generous offer from her, and I want to make sure it's worth it.
Has anyone on here taught at or attended one of these events? How was your experience?
I've taught at them. I think they are an excellent program. My recommendation would be to attend an event or two prior to starting line. They throw a TON of information at you and I think it's better integrated if you've experienced the sea of cones before hand.
An analogy would be a day of batting, fielding, and pitching drills taught by very competent coaches, and then playing baseball. You'd absolutely be better at baseball than you would be if you hadn't had the instruction, but if you already knew about baseball, and had played a few games, you could do a better job absorbing that information.
If you can't get out to an event before starting line, still do it, but if you can tag along with a buddy to an event first, do that.
What MazdaDuece says makes sense. Try one event and then do the school. The first event may leave you wondering but the school will then answer those wonders.
Autox is generally a very friendly event and very open to new guys. At your first event, when signing up, registering and signing the waiver onsite, be very sure to point out you have never done this before. That should help to get you some special treatment and guidance. At the event that I went to last weekend they normally do not allow passengers but for the new guys they put a seasoned pro in the car with him to help on the first or first couple runs.
You'll be fine. You'll have a good time.
An autox can be a long day out in the sun baking on an blacktop parking lot. As such, good sun protection is important. So, as a general rule of thumb, when at an event find the guy with the largest brimmed hat; he is usually a seasoned pro. He's probably been doing this for years. Talk to him and he will either give you help or find you help.
Where when will your first autox be?
I'll bet someone here on the board who is going to the same event will chime in.
I know that there are quite a few great regions in your area. Most have newb programs (sure, they call them novice but we know what they mean) and you'll be surprised at the number of peopel willing to help if you ask.
Bobzilla wrote: ...you'll be surprised at the number of peopel willing to help if you ask.
Yeah, it's really surprising how helpful & cheerful those crack dealers are when I stroll into their meetings and say I've been thinking about sampling cocaine...
Here is a link to some Old School Autox training videos
Though fashion and some methods have changed since this was recorded in the '80s, physics has remained the same.
The most recent event I was at still had 3rd Gens and CRX's in attendance. Some things have changed and many have not.
Interestingly, the lessons on braking are from an era before ABS was commonplace and traction control was not out yet either.
What John and mazdeuce both said.... My son and I both autocrossed for 1/2 a season and then started out the next year by attending a Starting line school. Just like a good baseball coach they start with the basics and move forward. You run a lap then switch seats with the instructors and then the instructor runs a lap in your car then you run a lap, etc. then switch instructors and continue to do the same. Our class included from age 16 (a girls B-Day present from her parents) to age 60 and it was absolutely amazing the difference in lap times between the morning session and the afternoon session. All the instructors were seasoned veterans, patient and well versed and I truly felt it was well worth the investment of time and money. Not saying it made me the fastest driver but it sure made me a better driver..... maybe I need to go back for a "refresher course" next year !!
In reply to Mark57:
Since we were at the same event with the 180 degree, single cone turn, you might enjoy this video segment on single cone pylon turns.
Though I knew the answer, I cant say that I was doing a great job of executing the maneuver, especially while piloting the heaviest and longest wheelbased car at the event on a tight and technical course.
I did however have fun trying.
WonkoTheSane wrote:Bobzilla wrote: ...you'll be surprised at the number of peopel willing to help if you ask.Yeah, it's really surprising how helpful & cheerful those crack dealers are when I stroll into their meetings and say I've been thinking about sampling cocaine...
I was going to say it's the same except one destroys your body and mind.... then I remember the sore muscles and blistered skin from hours of standing on hot concrete.
In reply to John Welsh :
Yes, that was a tough one.... Ro said I was the only one not having trouble with it but I still wasn't doing it right.... And yes, that course was definitely tough for the big cars like yours.
Don't forget the next event is the 11th put on by the anonymous club at the end of the dead end road.
OR . . . do an event or two locally, see how you like it and check out who's got a similar car to yours and is winning or placing each time.
Offer him or her the money that you would be spending on the school and ask for private lessons. No matter what the situation, you ALWAYS learn better, faster, and get more out of it if you have a private tutor rather than are one of many in a class with a teacher.
Some folks like the anonymity of a classroom, less chance of being singled out or made to look bad during questioning, but you want to learn, not hide. Better to be the student of the Master.
Go to an event or three and meet the crack dealers. Not sure what they put in the water, but Autocrossers are very welcoming to new people.
Show up at the event early so that you can meet the cones in person as you walk the course; makes it more personal when you come back and murder them.
Once you do a few runs, you will have some context to apply to the training classes.
Also post here: Get your crack here
We're unofficially trying to build a network linking newbies and experienced racers of various types. I'd second the whole "just go out there first" advice, especially if you can get someone to walk you through your first event. Feeling like you know what's going on at the event is one of the more intimidating parts about getting started. Getting that out of the way before you try to focus on the finer points of driving will make the instruction from the SCCA school more valuable.
I've never done one, but everyone seems to like it. I run our local autox rookie school and we do some different things, but same sort of deal. You get a lot of seat time and a good introduction to autox from it.
TeamEvil wrote: Offer him or her the money that you would be spending on the school and ask for private lessons. No matter what the situation, you ALWAYS learn better, faster, and get more out of it if you have a private tutor rather than are one of many in a class with a teacher.
Let me start by saying I haven't been to a Starting Line school. I have been to a couple of Evo schools, and I'm going to assume that they're similar in structure, although I don't actually know that for certain.
A formal school will have a formal curriculum and will be taught by instructors who've done it before. Being good at something and being good at teaching something are not the same skill -- lots of people can do the first, but not the second.
The big problem with the private tutor idea is that you need lots of runs, and that requires a site/cones/timing equipment/etc. This isn't something you are going to set up on your own for a few hundred bucks, so you're going to have to do it at normal autox events. Around here, at least, that means you get 4 timed runs and maybe (about a 25% chance) there'll be enough time left at the end of the day for a few fun runs.
Contrast this with the weekend Evo school I attended, which was 24 runs per day. The two days together amounted to an entire season of normal autocrossing. Learning requires practice and repetition, and being able to do pack that many runs into one weekend was huge.
Also, the Evo school essentially is a private tutor, you get 1:1 with a particular instructor for the entire event.
Overall, I thought the Evo school was well worth the cost, although I agree with other people that it's worth doing at least a few normal autox events first (I'd personally suggest more than just a few to maximize what you get out of the school).
Bobzilla wrote: I was going to say it's the same except one destroys your body and mind.... then I remember the sore muscles and blistered skin from hours of standing on hot concrete.
Yeah, and it eventually leads to marriage problems when you're trying to justify that $2500 suspension, and possibly it's a gateway to track events & endurance racing like it was for me.
Seriously, you'll have a ton of fun, and a coworker loved the starting line program when he went last year. I would also recommend going to an event or two if possible first, though.
Your first day should really just be focused on just getting through the course. Nothing else really matters, and you'll be so overwhelmed that trying to "work on something" won't really be possible yet.
I haven't been to a school yet. I'm looking at starting line or evo next year, which will be my third year of autocross.
Just go to an event. I think mazdeuce really summed it up well.
My very first event was last April. From the beginning of the day to the end, thanks to the local regional hot shoes, I'd picked up almost 10 seconds. It was a test and tune event, so I probably made 15 passes total, 3 as a passenger, and 3 with a co driver yelling at me like a rally co driver would, where to look, where to brake.
Another guy, just came up to me when I walked up, and has essentially adopted me at events. We walk the courses together, swap notes on air pressure and weird turns, and since we tend to run opposite heats, make suggestions where the other could do better after each run.
Just going to an event and seeing how all the "recommended reading" translates into real life helps a lot, and getting used to weaving the maze of cones and the car would greatly help what you learn in a school because you already have the basics down, I assume.
Thanks for the input, folks!
It sounds like I need to suck it up and just try it before shelling out the money.
I'll drop my name into that "Adopt a newbie" thread to see if there's anyone local on here. I casually know a few regular autocrossers from our local cars and coffee. Maybe I can reach out to those people.
Cooper_Tired wrote: Thanks for the input, folks! It sounds like I need to suck it up and just try it before shelling out the money. I'll drop my name into that "Adopt a newbie" thread to see if there's anyone local on here. I casually know a few regular autocrossers from our local cars and coffee. Maybe I can reach out to those people.
You really don't need to try it before you do Starting Line, that's the point of Starting Line. I completely disagree with the people saying that.
I say why wait? Go to one nearby and tell 'em you're new. We love fresh meat.
FWIW, I attended an autocross school (Up in Canada, through VCMC) after a couple years of casually autocrossing.
It was well worth it for the seat time alone, not to mention the instructor feedback.
It's been a while since I've autocrossed, but we did it for almost 20 years, so take this advice with an appropriate grain of salt. Or sand.
I'd suggest doing an entire season before going to a school. It takes a while for the sea of cones to not look like a sea of cones. Once you start seeing the layout of the course, THEN it's useful to get instruction on how to read and drive a line through that course. If you can't see the course through the trees, then instruction isn't going to stick very well.
Along side that, I'd find a stable set up for your car, and NOT change it for 2 full seasons. First season to understand how to run a course, the second season after some instruction on how to really drive the course.
At the end of that second season, you will have a FAR better idea of what the car really needs. If you try to fix any car problem now- you won't know if its your driving or not that you are trying to fix.
While I've not been to an autocross school, I have been to a driving school, and have taught at AROC's annual "drivers school"- ANY instruction will go a long way, when you are ready. One of the most important things about the school is that you will better understand what is going on, and where you can make improvements. As opposed to just driving and not knowing what's going wrong. To me, that made autocrossing so much more fun and interesting.
I'll give my thoughts on why you go to the Starting Line school before you do any autocrossing. I run the FCSCC Rookie School which aims to give people an introduction to autocrossing and I wish I had gone to an autocross school before I started doing it at all.
A. You get all the bad things you should not develop as habits pointed out right away. You know right away what not to do. This is big, because there are a lot of things you can do wrong over the course of a season of autocross.
B. You get someone explaining all of the things you will be confused about for two to three autocrosses if you just start doing it without knowing anything. They will explain what the cones mean, where to put the car, what understeer and oversteer are doing for you, where you should be looking.
C. You get probably 20-30 runs to work on A & B on a well developed course that is designed to incorporate all of the common driving elements you will see at an autocross. You could do 4-5 autocrosses and, depending on the club, you might not get that many runs and the course selection will vary greatly depending on the site and course designer.
D. You will be working with people that have done this for years and are consistent high level performers in the sport that will consistently give you the right information. If you go through a season of autocross you likely will not get that sort of instruction unless you run at a major SCCA sponsored club.
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