How about a 10:1 weight to HP rating and 28/35 mpg rating on regular gas? 2500 lbs, 250 HP in a sport model (or 2k lbs, 200HP, but that's unrealistic) and you can always bump to 300HP on premium in a MS trim package.
How about a 10:1 weight to HP rating and 28/35 mpg rating on regular gas? 2500 lbs, 250 HP in a sport model (or 2k lbs, 200HP, but that's unrealistic) and you can always bump to 300HP on premium in a MS trim package.
It has to have a better power/weight than the 86 twins. I'm betting 200hp and slightly lighter.
Hopefully Mazda will finally bring a coupe model in to compete with the Frisby twins and to fill the void left by the loss of the RX-7 and the RX-8. I'd love to see the new Miata take it to Toyota/Subaru.
There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).
I think you guys are nuts wanting (expecting?) a fixed top and 250hp. That’s not what the Miata is. The Miata is a two seat roadster, that’s it’s defining characteristics. The only way you’ll see a higher powered coupe or fastback is if they resurrect the RX 7/8 nameplate. And that’s as is should be. Also as far as 99% of the world is concerned the PRHT is just as good as a fixed top car. Don’t forget when BMW went from the Z3 to the Z4 they dropped the coupe as the power hard top replaced the need for it in their opinion.
I’m betting for a base stripper model (not available in the country) that weighs in at 2,2xx lb.’s so they can claim it’s lighter than the outgoing model. I bet the average out the door weight in North America will be 2,500lb’s with PRHT. Engine options I’ll bet there are two offerings. A small capacity 4 cyl with turbo. I’d say 3 cyl like the Ford 1.0 Ecoboost, but I’m not aware of Mazda currently having a 3cyl turbo engine in their repertoire. Then there will be the mainstream derivative of the current normally aspirated Ford/Mazda 2.0L making approx. 200hp and Direct Injection . That is how it’s always been with the NA, NB and NC. While North America shifted to the 1.8L for the NA in 94, the rest of the world continued to get the 1.6 with the 1.8 as an option. With the NC we only got the 2.0L, but some other regions have always got the 1.8L with the 2.0L as an option.
With the PRHT, I bet it will be like today with no ability to put a ‘real’ roll bar under it. And guess what, that doesn’t matter. How many people really want a roll bar? A fraction of a % I bet. For 99% of people who ‘think’ they want a roll bar already have the factory roll hoops. Now before people go waa waa we want to go on the track, there are many organization that will let cars with ‘factory’ roll protection such as the Miata, Boxster, Z4 on track as is. Not all, but many. Also the rest of the world isn’t as bent out of shape about roll over protection. In most of Europe you see convertibles all day long on the track, or in road going classes at Sprints and Hillclimbs with no roll bars. That’s partly because if you have a roll bar for competition it MUST BE per the rule book for diameter, mountings, bracing etc. I’ve read odd cases where people have entered the road going class at hillclimbs with a Westfield and had to remove the stock un braced roll bar. Yes, they were allowed to compete with nothing in a 7 rather than a non-legal bar. You also see people all the time with race seats and harnesses with stock roll factory roll bars.
Styling is hard to see. That pattern camo does a really good job of hiding the real shape underneath and breaking up feature lines. I loved the NA, Like the NC and loathed the NB from a styling point of view. I hope it’s a derivative of the classic lines. I feel that Mazda has jumped the shark in the last few years. I liked the design direction started by Moray Callum when he went to Mazda, but the current 3 and 6 look like they were good design that once finished someone decided to put a 120% scale front end on, the noses almost look larger than the hood. I really hope they escape that trend with the ND.
Going back to the engine. I’m sure that North American engine will be a 2.0L 4cl making circa 200hp with Direct Injection. That’s a personal concern as in 2-3 years I’ll be getting a new 4 season daily driver. My current list is either a used Boxster S or a Supercharged NC/ND. Flyin Miata seem to have a rock solid version of the Cosworth blower and their own management solutions, but will that be possible on a D.I. ND?
Adrian_Thompson wrote: I think you guys are nuts wanting (expecting?) a fixed top and 250hp. That’s not what the Miata is. The Miata is a two seat roadster, that’s it’s defining characteristics. The only way you’ll see a higher powered coupe or fastback is if they resurrect the RX 7/8 nameplate. And that’s as is should be.
That's personally what I've been calling for 
200 HP Miata with 50% or LESS of the weight on the nose, and an RX7/8 replacement built off the Miata platform for lightness, with the V6 since the Wankel seems unviable with current emissions regs.
jsquared wrote: There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).
Well that gap was filled by the Genesis Turbo which was discontinued this year, but the V6 genesis still kind of fills it. I see the Genesis about as commonly as I see Z cars now.
kanaric wrote:jsquared wrote: There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).Well that gap was filled by the Genesis Turbo which was discontinued this year, but the V6 genesis still kind of fills it. I see the Genesis about as commonly as I see Z cars now.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: I think you guys are nuts wanting (expecting?) a fixed top and 250hp. That’s not what the Miata is. The Miata is a two seat roadster, that’s it’s defining characteristics. The only way you’ll see a higher powered coupe or fastback is if they resurrect the RX 7/8 nameplate. And that’s as is should be.
Well what we want is a RX7 or RX8. Since they wont build that instead what we want is a higher trim Miata that fills that category on the same chassis. That is actually I think a fairly reasonable request and something that would be far cheaper than building a new RX8 for Mazda. They have done it before too. They had a hardtop Miata and they had a turbo Miata. They just need to combine the two and do the turbo Miata right this time.
DI is not a big deal. Our tuning partner is already into Skyactive engines, no issue there.
The shocks on the chassis model look long because they're fully extended. As they would be if there wasn't a car on them.
The biggest problem we have is what customers buy. They don't want the stripped down versions, they want the toys. Thus the success of the PRHT. They do want something fun to drive, not boulevardy - you can see that in the collapse of NC sales along with the direction Mazda took with evolving the NC. It got much better from the floppy blob that was introduced in 2006.
There might be a turbo halo model in a few years. Or not. I'm not holding my breath. I would be very surprised to see a coupe.
Turbo Miata wasn't a sales success. And while hard core enthusiasts complained about it's performance, the main stream automotive press liked the Mazsaspeed Miata so it wasn't killed by being slammed in the press. And as for a coupe, what is wrong with the PRHT?
What is a "PRHT"?
PRHT is the Power Retractable Hard Top, which is Mazda speak for errr, a power retractable hardtop 
pres589 wrote: What is a "PRHT"?
Power Retractable Hard Top----- I just had one during my recent California trip. Think 90% of the refinement of a Z4 or SLK, more driving fun, and 1/2 the price. While not a hard-core track car, it makes one heck of a nice daily driver.
Oh, that. Yeah. Eh, it seemed like a silly thing to offer. Why bother engineering that thing and having a second kind of top to deal with in-factory. They do look nice up, and I get the benefits, but there's minuses too; doesn't the hard top kill trunk space when down?
pres589 wrote: Oh, doesn't the hard top kill trunk space when down?
No. And to answer the next question it only weighs like 100 pounds more iirc.
What killed the turbo Mazdaspeed Miata in the showroom? A couple of things. It was an old model, on the way out. They're a bit underwhelming on a test drive. And the Dodge dealer had the Neon SRT4 on the lot.
Then the aftermarket fixed them () and demand went up. Too late for Mazda, though.
In reply to Junkyard_Dog:
Wow, nice work on the space question then, I thought those kind of tops usually killed space vs. their floppy cousins. I knew about the weight difference.
kanaric wrote:jsquared wrote: There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).Well that gap was filled by the Genesis Turbo which was discontinued this year, but the V6 genesis still kind of fills it. I see the Genesis about as commonly as I see Z cars now.
The Genesis V6 is in the same "market position" as the 370Z, the Genesis turbo I-4 is too heavy (weight/size of the Z but power of FRS/BRZ), so neither are really "between" the FRS/BRZ and 370Z.
And the reason the turbo Miata didn't sell well is because it wasn't that good compared to the aftermarket turbo Miatas. Too small intercooler, not enough power, etc.
iirc The PRHT adds 82 pounds. The upside is it's much harder to break into, watertight (even in car-washes) quieter, and the A/C works much better on hot days. The top folds down in 20 seconds or so, so you can still drop it at stoplights. I just spent 5 days and covered hundreds of miles in one out in L.A. For a fun daily I liked it......a lot. The one I had was an auto--- but even that worked pretty darn well. I'd buy a manual, but for those with highly congested commutes--- even the auto PRHT is a heck of a deal. (about $30K new)
It's not often I'm smitten with a newer car---- I was with the PRHT MX-5. I've seen fairly low-mileage used ones selling for $15K or so....which is very tempting. I'd imagine prices will plummet as soon as the new car is released. 
jsquared wrote:kanaric wrote:The Genesis V6 is in the same "market position" as the 370Z, the Genesis turbo I-4 is too heavy (weight/size of the Z but power of FRS/BRZ), so neither are really "between" the FRS/BRZ and 370Z. And the reason the turbo Miata didn't sell well is because it wasn't that good compared to the aftermarket turbo Miatas. Too small intercooler, not enough power, etc.jsquared wrote: There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).Well that gap was filled by the Genesis Turbo which was discontinued this year, but the V6 genesis still kind of fills it. I see the Genesis about as commonly as I see Z cars now.
Well the thing is I work on an Air Force base and whenever you see a new Airman with a new or newish car one of the most common cars I see are Turbo genesis. If it's too heavy or whatever they don't seem to care. Really if you have a 2014 vesion it weighs the same and has similar power to the mustang ecoboost but for like $5000 less.
Really what are they 3500lbs? 280hp? Considering how easily tunable they are they really are like a modern version of a MK3 Supra. The original version with like 220hp especially so.
In reply to kanaric:
The turbo genesis is $20k? The Ecoboost Mustang is $25k. I'd take the Mustang over the Hyundai based on the aftermarket alone.
They're buying them because they're the hot ticket for 2+2 RWD, popularity, and low cost-of-entry. That has no bearing on where it's positioned in the market, and frankly, the new joins with disposable income aren't really thinking that deeply about it, for the most part. A 4-banger Genesis Coupe is nearly 3400 lbs and isn't exactly "agile". There is still a hole between compact, lightweight, low-power cars like the FRS/BRZ and Miata (15:1-ish power-to-weight, under 3000lbs), and the bigger, more powerful-but-slightly-fat cars in the 370Z and Genesis turbo/V6 bracket (10:1-ish power-to-weight, around 3300lbs).
jsquared wrote:kanaric wrote:The Genesis V6 is in the same "market position" as the 370Z, the Genesis turbo I-4 is too heavy (weight/size of the Z but power of FRS/BRZ), so neither are really "between" the FRS/BRZ and 370Z. And the reason the turbo Miata didn't sell well is because it wasn't that good compared to the aftermarket turbo Miatas. Too small intercooler, not enough power, etc.jsquared wrote: There is absolutely a gap for (preferably hardtop) RWD cars between the BRZ/FRS and the 370Z, both in price and performance. There's also a performance gap previously filled by the S2000 (and arguably the Solstice/Sky turbos).Well that gap was filled by the Genesis Turbo which was discontinued this year, but the V6 genesis still kind of fills it. I see the Genesis about as commonly as I see Z cars now.
We saw a very different demographic on MSM owners - the original buyers. They were not cross-shopping aftermarket turbo setups. They bought a car, they didn't buy a turbo kit. Very different level of knowledge. Willing to modify, but they didn't have the background.
The NC owners were different again. They were not the same people that bought NAs and NBs.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: I think you guys are nuts wanting (expecting?) a fixed top and 250hp. That’s not what the Miata is. The Miata is a two seat roadster, that’s it’s defining characteristics. The only way you’ll see a higher powered coupe or fastback is if they resurrect the RX 7/8 nameplate.
Yeah, but it doesn't have to be only that way.
In the old sports car days, you got intro level sports cars (Bugeyes etc.) and then if you wanted a step up you got a different larger car - MGB, or two steps up with even larger engine (and weight) a big Healey.
Today you don't need to do it that way, you can do it all in one platform at much lower cost. Pontiac did it with the Solstice (which outsold the Miata when released, BTW). They started with a 173 bhp normally aspirated engine - modest but in line with Miatas and others.
Then they used the same car, with very minor adjustments, to issue a turbo 260 bhp (optionally 290) that got BETTER fuel mileage than the base model and looked essentially the same.
Mazda has all the technology from their Mazdaspeed turbo lines, and just plugging one of those engines into a Miata (with the same sort of minor mods as the Solstice did) along with a few styling cues - a GT badge or something - would let them do both lines with minimal added manufacturing expense, and it would broaden their market and attract customers that just weren't interested in the normal base model Miata.
Where's the downside?
clutchsmoke wrote: In reply to kanaric: The turbo genesis is $20k? The Ecoboost Mustang is $25k. I'd take the Mustang over the Hyundai based on the aftermarket alone.
Well the aftermarket isn't exactly not there for the Genesis. Keep in mind that this turbo genesis is discontined when the new mustang comes on. I'm sure all the people that would of bought turbo genesis buy turbo mustang now. They are practically identical cars.
That might be why they discontinued it. It's only discontinued for America.
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