Nissan to cut several models, including the 370Z?

ProDarwin said:

Honestly isn't it only relatively recently that you could get a new car with performance approaching the 370Z for that price?  I suppose the 370 is a little dated, but IMO its still a strong value.  Nissan could probably up its power and leapfrog the Mustang or the Camaro in performance per $ relatively easily.

 

I think if I were gutting E36 M3 fom the Nissan portfolio, it would be the cars with garbage styling, garbage driving dynamics, and lots of overlap.

 

And yes obviously either fix the CVT so its reliable or get rid of it.

Bare bones, mustang GT can be had for sub $30k. A ~3700 lb 460 hp 5.0 V8 will stomp a mudhole in the Nissan's ass. The 370Z is a fun car to drive but it is on par with the turbo 4 cylinder mustang powerwise. It cant even hold a candle to the V8.

In reply to GarageGorilla :

I like both cars so don't take this as a condemnation of either, but straight line performance isn't everything.  I honestly think we've reached a point of diminishing returns.  Yaah, it's fun to stomp on it in a 4-5-6-700hp car, but it loses it's appeal after a time.  I honestly think (in straight line terms) that a mid 13 to mid 14 seconds 1/4 mile time is all you need for a daily.  I like to be able to exit a junction or turn around and wring a car out in 2nd gear.  Do that in a mid power car and you get the satisfaction of feeling and hearing the car accelerate and exercising the engine.  DO that in a high power car and you're making a spectacle of yourself and acting as cop bait.  IF I wer inthe market for these cars both have more than enough DD hp so I'd be assessing them on other factors.  It's also why I prefer the Mustang Bullitt to the GT250-500.

Vigo said:

Honestly isn't it only relatively recently that you could get a new car with performance approaching the 370Z for that price?  I suppose the 370 is a little dated, but IMO its still a strong value.  Nissan could probably up its power and leapfrog the Mustang or the Camaro in performance per $ relatively easily.

The 370 is still fast and anyone who thinks it isn't is jaded. Now, if you want to go faster that's fine but it's not like the 370 is outclassed by really anything it actually competes with besides V8 camaros and mustangs, and calling them competitors is even a little of a stretch to me. It's just old. But i mean, mustangs are fat and i'd rather have an old design than a fat design. 

  

You'd have to go back quite far. Even the first SN95 GT was 3400 pounds. 

GarageGorilla said:

Bare bones, mustang GT can be had for sub $30k. 

I'm talking MSRP.  The Z is $5k less than the GT.

The Turbo4 pony cars are on par with the Z though.

Vigo said:

Honestly isn't it only relatively recently that you could get a new car with performance approaching the 370Z for that price?  I suppose the 370 is a little dated, but IMO its still a strong value.  Nissan could probably up its power and leapfrog the Mustang or the Camaro in performance per $ relatively easily.

The 370 is still fast and anyone who thinks it isn't is jaded. Now, if you want to go faster that's fine but it's not like the 370 is outclassed by really anything it actually competes with besides V8 camaros and mustangs, and calling them competitors is even a little of a stretch to me. It's just old. But i mean, mustangs are fat and i'd rather have an old design than a fat design. 

I agree the 370z is is different than a pony car. Between the smaller dimensions, lower weight, and way the general proportions are laid out, they feel quite a bit different to drive. They're both in that niche where if you set out for one you're probably not cross shopping the other. The 370z is more akin to the FRS and BRZ although it's a bit more expensive. Heck the BRZ is 8 years old now with minor improvements throughout. I don't hear any rumors of a full on redesign of that or complaining it is long in the tooth.

Every time I've driven a 370z I've liked it, minus the over-the-shoulder visibility problems. I've driven one from Florida to Pennsylvania and back without any issues at all. It's a bit long in the tooth but I'm not sure where it could go from here. Nissan doesn't exactly have any inspiring powerplants at the moment and, combined with everything else, the cost of reengineering the thing would be phenomenal, especially as BEVs are fast becoming a reality.

Why not just let it languish, do some interior improvements and turn out a couple thousand a year on your amortized tooling? All the while churning out profit generating SUVs/CUVs waiting until its clear that BEV adoption is going to continue to grow without the expiring tax credits. Either that or scrap the thing then gamble on designing a $35k BEV Z car from the ground up (or a BEV IDX, I'm not picky.)

ProDarwin said:

GarageGorilla said:

Bare bones, mustang GT can be had for sub $30k. 

I'm talking MSRP.  The Z is $5k less than the GT.

The Turbo4 pony cars are on par with the Z though.

MSRP is a false number though. Regular production Fords NEVER sell for MSRP, wheras Hondas for example,sell much closer to MSRP. So if a Mustang has a 40K MSRP, I know I can easily get it for $30-32K at the right time of year. I dont think Nissan has the same leeway. General rule of thumb for a Ford is that 'real world' price if 85% of MSRP.

The0retical said:

Vigo said:

Honestly isn't it only relatively recently that you could get a new car with performance approaching the 370Z for that price?  I suppose the 370 is a little dated, but IMO its still a strong value.  Nissan could probably up its power and leapfrog the Mustang or the Camaro in performance per $ relatively easily.

The 370 is still fast and anyone who thinks it isn't is jaded. Now, if you want to go faster that's fine but it's not like the 370 is outclassed by really anything it actually competes with besides V8 camaros and mustangs, and calling them competitors is even a little of a stretch to me. It's just old. But i mean, mustangs are fat and i'd rather have an old design than a fat design. 

I agree the 370z is is different than a pony car. Between the smaller dimensions, lower weight, and way the general proportions are laid out, they feel quite a bit different to drive. They're both in that niche where if you set out for one you're probably not cross shopping the other. The 370z is more akin to the FRS and BRZ although it's a bit more expensive. Heck the BRZ is 8 years old now with minor improvements throughout. I don't hear any rumors of a full on redesign of that or complaining it is long in the tooth.

Every time I've driven a 370z I've liked it, minus the over-the-shoulder visibility problems. I've driven one from Florida to Pennsylvania and back without any issues at all. It's a bit long in the tooth but I'm not sure where it could go from here. Nissan doesn't exactly have any inspiring powerplants at the moment and, combined with everything else, the cost of reengineering the thing would be phenomenal, especially as BEVs are fast becoming a reality.

Why not just let it languish, do some interior improvements and turn out a couple thousand a year on your amortized tooling? All the while churning out profit generating SUVs/CUVs waiting until its clear that BEV adoption is going to continue to grow without the expiring tax credits. Either that or scrap the thing then gamble on designing a $35k BEV Z car from the ground up (or a BEV IDX, I'm not picky.)

The BRZ got "slight" engine improvements and a change in the gearing, and Toyota and Subaru have confirmed multiple times a 2nd gen is in the works. 

Hopefully a beefed up FA24 with a 20-25% increase in power over the current FA20, and I'll be hard pressed not to buy one. 

I went from a Shelby Mustang to a 370Z, and there was nothing the Mustang did better than the Z other than roasty burnouts.  The 370 simply was better at being a car.  The Mustang was fun for a short while, but it tired quickly.  I ended up getting rid of it for a BRZ a few years later, but it was a mistake.  370's don't get much love on here, but they are far better cars that people give them credit for.  Sure it should have been replaced a few years ago, but where else can you get an old school V6 coupe so cheap?

Here is a 30K Mustang GT that will lay waste to a 370 in a straight line and probably hang with it through some curves as well.

For $3K more, this is a performance pack GT that will also lay waste in a straight line but demolish through the curves as well:

Now before anybody says these aren't 'real' prices, they most assuredly are. You can go there, buy the cars for these prices, and drive home. This particular dealer has like 80 Mustang GTs on hand. My closes Nissan dealer doesnt even have any 370s on the lot.  

GarageGorilla said:

General rule of thumb for a Ford is that 'real world' price if 85% of MSRP.

I'll admit, a new ecoboost for $21k would be pretty interesting.

Regarding handling, I don't see a mustang exceeding 370 performance by any significant margin.  Just using autox as an example, the 370 falls into faster classes in both street and street prepared.  It fits just as much tire, but weighs less and is smaller.

Heres a new 370 for 26k.  There are more at ~28k

In reply to z31maniac :

I'm not heavily involved in the Frisbee world. Are most of the aftermarket parts interchangable between the pre and post facelift twins?

If not I'd argue what Toyota did was worse than what Nissan is doing with the 370z because it cuts into the economies of scale for replacements and spares.

I must have missed the successor confirmation announcements.

Well Nissan is killing off both the regular cab titan and the Cummins v8

https://www.motor1.com/news/363767/refreshed-nissan-titan-loses-diesel/

The0retical said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I'm not heavily involved in the Frisbee world. Are most of the aftermarket parts interchangable between the pre and post facelift twins?

If not I'd argue what Toyota did was worse than what Nissan is doing with the 370z because it cuts into the economies of scale for replacements and spares.

I must have missed the successor confirmation announcements.

Yep. The only real differences are the front fascia, the intake manifold, the rear end gearing. Newer cars have stereo controls on the steering wheel and maybe a difference entertainment interface.

But as far as suspension/exhaust, all that stuff, all the same.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Good luck with that dealer.  I tried to buy a car from them once.   Lots of discounts I didn’t qualify for.   You’ll never see that price.  

ProDarwin said:

 

GarageGorilla said:

General rule of thumb for a Ford is that 'real world' price if 85% of MSRP.

I'll admit, a new ecoboost for $21k would be pretty interesting.

 

Regarding handling, I don't see a mustang exceeding 370 performance by any significant margin.  Just using autox as an example, the 370 falls into faster classes in both street and street prepared.  It fits just as much tire, but weighs less and is smaller.

Heres a new 370 for 26k.  There are more at ~28k

 

10 year 200k mile warrenty? 

Datsun310Guy said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Good luck with that dealer.  I tried to buy a car from them once.   Lots of discounts I didn’t qualify for.   You’ll never see that price. 

That's my experience with many dealers.  That's why MSRP is a more accurate comparison IMO. 

You'd have to go back quite far. Even the first SN95 GT was 3400 pounds. 

I just meant i'd rather have a right-sized car (in my own estimation) then another 100hp, especially when you can just add the 100hp later anyway.

Of course, enthusiasts with that mindset are a rare breed and don't buy many new cars and that's part of the 370's problem.  Coincidentally, the SN95 was the last Mustang that i thought was the 'right size'. My 996 911 was the ultimate right size. Slightly under 3000lbs but wearing 275 tires, comfortable up front and technically capable of holding 4 people (i did it once). 'Only' 300hp but way faster than a 300hp v6 ponycar just like a 370Z is way faster than the ecoboost mustang someone else mentioned. A 370z is actually faster than a 996 Carrera for similar money and people say the 996 is the bargain 911 and the 370z is what, overpriced? It's always gotten an odd reception in a world of internet size queens who think it's so far down on numbers from  XYZ musclecar or supercar that it's somehow not good at just being what it is, a short wheelbase relatively small and light 'only' 350hp sports car that still does 0-60 in 4 seconds, sounds good, handles well and looks purposeful inside and out. 

Vigo said:

You'd have to go back quite far. Even the first SN95 GT was 3400 pounds. 

I just meant i'd rather have a right-sized car (in my own estimation) then another 100hp, especially when you can just add the 100hp later anyway.

 

Of course, enthusiasts with that mindset are a rare breed and don't buy many new cars and that's part of the 370's problem.  Coincidentally, the SN95 was the last Mustang that i thought was the 'right size'. My 996 911 was the ultimate right size. Slightly under 3000lbs but wearing 275 tires, comfortable up front and technically capable of holding 4 people (i did it once). 'Only' 300hp but way faster than a 300hp v6 ponycar just like a 370Z is way faster than the ecoboost mustang someone else mentioned. A 370z is actually faster than a 996 Carrera for similar money and people say the 996 is the bargain 911 and the 370z is what, overpriced? It's always gotten an odd reception in a world of internet size queens who think it's so far down on numbers from  XYZ musclecar or supercar that it's somehow not good at just being what it is, a short wheelbase relatively small and light 'only' 350hp sports car that still does 0-60 in 4 seconds, sounds good, handles well and looks purposeful inside and out. 

As someone who has had two "modern" Nissan's ('06 350, '11 Frontier Pro-4X)........its incredibly apparent why they are cheap. It's not the drivetrain, it's the interiors that start falling apart and showing wear in less than 20k miles. 

ProDarwin said:

Datsun310Guy said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Good luck with that dealer.  I tried to buy a car from them once.   Lots of discounts I didn’t qualify for.   You’ll never see that price. 

That's my experience with many dealers.  That's why MSRP is a more accurate comparison IMO. 

What dealers? What cars? Between myself and my ex-wife I've purchased 6 new cars at different dealerships over the last 9 years.

I have never had these experiences that many claim to have had. 

Vigo said:

You'd have to go back quite far. Even the first SN95 GT was 3400 pounds. 

I just meant i'd rather have a right-sized car (in my own estimation) then another 100hp, especially when you can just add the 100hp later anyway.

 

Of course, enthusiasts with that mindset are a rare breed and don't buy many new cars and that's part of the 370's problem.  Coincidentally, the SN95 was the last Mustang that i thought was the 'right size'. My 996 911 was the ultimate right size. Slightly under 3000lbs but wearing 275 tires, comfortable up front and technically capable of holding 4 people (i did it once). 'Only' 300hp but way faster than a 300hp v6 ponycar just like a 370Z is way faster than the ecoboost mustang someone else mentioned. A 370z is actually faster than a 996 Carrera for similar money and people say the 996 is the bargain 911 and the 370z is what, overpriced? It's always gotten an odd reception in a world of internet size queens who think it's so far down on numbers from  XYZ musclecar or supercar that it's somehow not good at just being what it is, a short wheelbase relatively small and light 'only' 350hp sports car that still does 0-60 in 4 seconds, sounds good, handles well and looks purposeful inside and out. 

I know your overall point is that a car is much more than numbers on a spec sheet, and we like what we like, but I think you're  seeing the 370 through some rosy lenses here.

The only Z with 350hp is the $46k Nismo. Everything else is 332hp/270 ft-lbs. They seem to do 0-60 in about 5 flat and the 1/4 mile in 13.5-14 in the several instrumented tests that I've read.

An Ecoboost Mustang is very competitive with those figures and it's more fuel efficient, costs less, and has better support from a larger dealer network.

With equal drivers a 370 will probably out lap an Ecoboost Mustang on a track thanks to being a couple hundred lbs less but as you said, very few people are buying these things to hurl around a track.

z31maniac said:

What dealers? What cars? Between myself and my ex-wife I've purchased 6 new cars at different dealerships over the last 9 years.

I have never had these experiences that many claim to have had. 

I have only bought one new car recently (and I will never do so again if I can avoid it) , but I did speak with a number of dealers about their advertised price online.  A lot of them roll many incentives into that price that most don't qualify for.  For example, the Elantra I was going to buy had rolled in a military discount and recent college graduate discount into the online price so when you walked in to buy you'd actually be starting at a higher price..