Not only "what car", but what tools?

This is a totally different twist on the "what car" question. I've posted a few times before about my desire to learn how to wrench on cars and how to get started. Back in November, I picked up a '94 Geo Prizm (aka Toyota Corolla) dirt cheap. It needed axle shafts when I bought it. I wound up paying someone to do it in their shop, but he let me help. In hindsight, I'm glad I did because without an impact wrench, it would have been a hell of a fight trying to get those axle nuts off. Beyond those nuts being tough, it actually didn't seem too hard. However, I'm finding that I'm using the Prizm as my everyday car now that there is salt and crap all over the roads here. My NC Miata is now tucked away for the winter.

I've managed to convince the wife to let me get a donor "cadaver" car to do nothing but screw around with. So if she gives permission, why the hell not do it? This would be a car I won't drive (unless it is/becomes drivable), it's sole purpose will be to tear stuff apart and put it back together. When I'm done with it, I'll either sell it dirt cheap or sell it to the u-pull it yard. So looking for a cheap car. What would you say is the simplest car to wrench on? I would think I'd want a car that has the following qualifications: very simple mechanicals/electricals, plenty of room to work in, cheap and readily available parts supply, lots of online and/or manuals support. My first thoughts would be something like an original Beetle, old CJ or maybe a 70's pickup?

Also, what tools would you recommend for starters? I've got the basic $50 Sears home mechanic set, some ramps, some jack stands, and a few other small assorted stuff, but that's it.

So if you were just starting to learn basic mechanics, and had permission to buy a "throw away" car, what would you choose as your test subject?

I wouldn't buy a throw-away car. I'd buy one that held some interest for me.

That said, the bug, Jeep, or old pickup you mentioned would be good. I'd go for the bug, but that's just me.

Or, better yet, an MGB GT, or something along that line.

As usual, the answer is Miata... in this case, a cheap NA.

In reality, almost any car will do, but agree about getting something that you'll want to work on.

How about a crappy miata? It fits all of your criteria.

I would invest in an air compressor and impact gun for loosening bolts (I never use them to tighten nuts/bolts).

Also, a set of gearwrenches is extremely helpful. Get some good lights (both in the garage and a portable one to look under the car).

Pulley pullers and spring compressors are fairly cheap and nice to have.

I will think of more later.

Rob

88-92 MX6.

Seriously. This is one of the easiest FWD cars i've ever worked on.

slantvaliant wrote: I wouldn't buy a throw-away car. I'd buy one that held some interest for me.

I agree with you on that. A car that holds some interest for me would be great. But I suspect that if I really start digging into it and having fun, then it'll hold interest for me no matter what it is. Plus, since it is just a learning tool for me, I plan to have some fun with it anyway.

Wouldn't the old Miata or MX6 be have really tight spaces to work in and/or have some complicated electronics, etc? I had thought Bug or CJ only because from my understanding their wiring and mechanicals are very basic and simple. Not that I'm convinced those are the right ones to get, but just thinking what would be easy.

any car that semi runs and drives and is handed to you for scrap value or less. your basic crapsman tool set is a good start. If your budget stretch it, I suggest a 150psi compressor and a cheap set of air tools with it. Sears puts them on sale for about $200 every now and then IIRC. A speed handle is a tool i find invaluable as well. i do not recommend the craftman one though. The snap-off or matsoso are better ones.

old pick-up - then you've got a tow vehicle for the next project. For tools - 3lb hammer, philips and flat screwdrivers and adjustable wrench.

good socket set with extensions, several sizes of vice grips and channel locks, screwdrivers and a decent floor jack/jack stands will get you through most mechanical fixes on old stuff (include the hammer on the list and a propane/mapp torch). When you want to start messing with body work and fabrication - that's a whole other world of tools.

Get the tools oldtin listed, and add a multimeter with a continuity tester (buzzer preferred). Make some short and some loong jumpers (I like 10 gauge and alligator clips).

PB Blaster (or the like) for breaking loose the rusted bolts.

I don't think you need a compressor... there are too many electrical tools that do the same thing for far cheaper and more space efficient. The HF electric impact wrench is case in point. I got mine for $29 with coupon. Your basic tool set will meet most of your needs- I'd take a look at this gearwrench set from advance auto which is a surprisingly good set at a surprisingly good price (currently $104.37 with code and free shipping): tool set

Past that, I would get them as you need them. HF is a good place to start buying hand tools (they have great jacks) because you get to practice on the cheap stuff and if you find that you use it often, you can graduate to a better set over time.

As far as the cars go- I'd get something that's interesting to you for sure. The old MG's are fun- but it is hard to find one that isn't hacked to bits- sorta takes some of the joy out of working on such a simple engine. Don't be afraid of electrical systems and computer controls- they aren't as complicated as you would expect. If you have lingering fear about EFI systems, I would recommend reading the Megasquirt Megamanual... even if you don't plan to install an MSEFI system, that manual is hugely instructive on how EFI systems work.

oldtin wrote: old pick-up - then you've got a tow vehicle for the next project. For tools - 3lb hammer, philips and flat screwdrivers and adjustable wrench. good socket set with extensions, several sizes of vice grips and channel locks, screwdrivers and a decent floor jack/jack stands will get you through most mechanical fixes on old stuff (include the hammer on the list and a propane/mapp torch). When you want to start messing with body work and fabrication - that's a whole other world of tools.

Everything he said. Old rusty trucks are dirt cheap and quite useful.

As you work on your car, pay attention when you say "I wish I had.......(fill in tool type here)"

Metric flare wrenches were my last "I wish".

As for the car? Craigslist ad "Seeking a project car" might be a good start. A buddy did this looking for a better car for pizza delivery. This often brings out folks with lots of projects and not enough time or money.

His ad led him to an 89 5 speed Maxima that was a better car than his girlfriend had after a new axle and bearing and radio. He got a 95 Ford Aspire with a trashed interior and needing a tuneup for his car and I got a 59 Bugeye and a Midget. You may see some truly odd and facinating junk! 92 3000gt...might still get this one....62 Continental...02 Civic that I ran away from.....52 Ford truck with a lightning motor....maybe a dozen Grand Ams.

Found a diesiel Ranger when we walked onto a used car lot and told the fellow we were looking for pure crapcans for uber cheap. He spoke of what a favor it would be to have a group of 6 cars hauled off until we zeroed in on the Ranger...then It became $1500.

Bruce

Whatever car you choose...GET A TITLE!!
Double ditto on the Gearwrenches!

I think a tired old Miata would be your best bet. It is the most similar to your current Miata and not too far off from the Prism DD.

The Miatas are very easy to learn on and they come apart and go back together in a very logical way making it easy to work on and understand. Plus you can later apply those lessons to the current Miata.

old pickups and bugs are different and what you learn might not be as easy to apply to what you have. They will also require different tools and socket sizes that may not carry over to your current cars.

You definitely don't need air tools for the kind of stuff you are doing at home. I've been wrenching on cars for 20 years w/o air tools. Just get a "breaker bar" and use a jack handle on nuts and bolts that are difficult to break loose - leverage is king.

Air compressor. Air compressor. Air compressor.

Then buy a cheap-o kit from Harbor Freight, or even HD/Lowes. I got one several years ago with an impact, ratchet, die-grinder, air chisel, and all the necessary accessories for ~$50, and all have held up. Batteries don't go dead on air tools, and I'd bet a testicle there's no way in hell the $30 HF battery powered impact has anywhere near the nut-busting power of my cheap-ass air impact with compressor set to "kill."

Buy a race-jack from HF when they go on sale, and hang on to those GRM HF coupons. Don't forget the JACKSTANDS!!! Actually, I'd put those on the top of the list.

+1 for PB blast, and add a cheap propane torch to the mix.

Breaker bar + 4' or longer piece of pipe that fits over handle of said breaker bar. You're gonna need it.

You're going to round off the head of a bolt at some point, at which point, you'll know that these are the greatest berkeleying things ever invented:

Damaged Bolt/Nut Remover Set

Buy a set of spares of the sockets you use most. Any Honda owner should have 8,000 10 and 12mm sockets laying around to replace the ones that get left on the cowl before a shake-down run.

Harbor Freight sells a big package of different size extensions, reducers, etc. Buy it. Keep it handy. I also like to have spare 1/2" to 3/8" reducers around.

Pliers and Vicegrips.

IMHO, the Gearwrench set is a "nice to have" item, considering the price.

Mercedes with CIS fuel injection. Older mercedes are well built cars. Few people understand how the CIS system works and the world need more of them.

Good luck.

You know what I saw in the local Craigslist that made me seriously wish for a garage (more than usual)? Peep this yo; 1989 Mustang Sedan (aka notchback) with a four cylinder and a five speed. Good shape, $450 asking price, body looks fairly straight but it's a white car with a couple red body parts. Then there's another car to go with; 1988 Turbocoupe with a bad manual trans. Asking a grand for that but I bet there's some play in that price.

Want to learn how to do all kinds of stuff? Build the two cars into a single Mustang doing a swap to get those tasty five lug parts under the Mustang, eventually get a Megasquirt controlling fuel and spark and possibly boost (I think V3 does that now right?) and all kinds of other neat things. Then enter the $20xx Challenge with it and have a great time! Totally easy!

"EF" Honda Civics (88-91) are dirt simple to work on, very similair to your other cars and don't require too many "special" tools to work on, parts are also fairly cheap, especially hop up parts that make them quite fun to drive.

Gear wrenches are nice and occasioanlly Advance puts the basic $40 set on sale for 15 or 20.

Northen tool also has pretty decent priced tools and they seem to have a good warranty.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: 88-92 MX6. Seriously. This is one of the easiest FWD cars i've ever worked on.

Indeed, those are fairly straightforward.

Also, your AE101 (93-97 Prism/Corolla) is dead simple too. I had a slightly fooled with 95 Corolla, and it was cheap, plentiful, and responded (reasonably) well to some simple mods. Get a haynes manual and have fun. Honestly, Im almost interested in getting my hands on another 5speed, but go with the 7afe version (higher displacement), and begin ripping everything out - Interior, AC, Radio/speakers, sound deadening, rear door guts...everything. Theyre already light, respond well to EFI and intake mods, timing advance, and theres even a small aftermarket for these, so a Header, clutch and flywheel are available. It will be no farm burner, but it will be fun, and satisfying because wrenching on one is very easy and will pay off.

1st Gen RX7, so simple to work on, everything is just basic, watch for rust when you pick one though (inner rear wheel wells/under the storage bins)

Stay away from rust in any first project.

Even the rotary engine is supremely simple.

X2 for the title.

poopshovel wrote: Batteries don't go dead on air tools, and I'd bet a testicle there's no way in hell the $30 HF battery powered impact has anywhere near the nut-busting power of my cheap-ass air impact with compressor set to "kill."

Very true. However, I've been pretty happy with my $50 HF plug-in electric impact (advertised at 240 ft/lbs). I'm sure a good compressor could do better and is obviously more versatile (fits all kinds of air powered tools on there), but the corded electric impact has done everything I've asked and doesn't take up the space or budget that an air compressor would.

That said, I still want a compressor one day. Without an enclosed garage I just don't have the space or security to keep one. The wife lets me keep all kinds of car parts/tools lying around the house, but usually only temporary.

edit - the only caveat of the corded impact is that there isn't any way to adjust the torque. So it's mostly used for taking stuff apart and breaking bolts loose. Upon installation I have to use a torque wrench. Admittedly, I did use it to torque down the crank bolt on my 4AGE during the timing belt job because I didn't have the special tool to keep it from spinning. It's a big bolt though.

I'm going to have to get that bolt remover set you linked. Thanks!

i can not see that anyone forgot the most important tool to keep in the took box.....

duct tape.......

as for a ceheap beater...look on craigslist for something that needs work, pick up cheap, fix said issue, then flip car and move into next project...

ratchets and sockets, dmm, speed handle, and the acknowledgement that fixing cars really isn't that hard. All it is is knowing how things work and using the process of elimmination to solve problems. If you think about it, all a car needs to run is ignition, timing, air/fuel, and compression
make sure these are supplied and appropriate, and the car will run. fine tune as you will.

Yeah, I was talking about the plug-in HF impact wrench, not the cordless. Also- it should be noted- the gearwrench set I posted doesn't actually have the open/box gearwrenches. It's a basic 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 socket set with a few traditional wrenches, but the quality is really steps above craftsman, and it's a great price. I did buy the gear wrenches separately.

Great list of tools, keeping my eyes out for good bargains. I've already got a decent socket set, and the traditional wrenches, srewdrivers, etc... Don't have compressor, breaker bar of some kind, gear wrenches. I've got a good set of jack stands and a decent jack. Got a pair of shop lights with a very long cord.

As for cars, going to keep searching. Good thing is that since it's dead of winter, I'm in no hurry. If I find something, great. But the car won't be garaged (though I could move it into the garage as needed) and right now we have snow on the ground. Right now, on Craigslist I've put feelers out for:

'94 Escort - auto trans - needs head gasket - $400

'80 Chevy C10 - has carb issue - $700

'88 Bronco II - owner says needs minor things (?), definitely need more details on that - $500

But if none of those turn out to be what I'm looking for, I'll keep moving on.