Now for something completely different, a what car thread!

clutchsmoke wrote: No back up on my FC vote?! Where's the rotard love??

Actualy speek to me more on this. It is a BTDT. I did like mine, but it was the first car I had when I moved to the States, but I was living in an apratment with no tools, no space etc and when it got to clutch time the lure of American muscle got to me so I swapped it for my old Mustang. Not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, but a great drive.

Tell me about making power with out spending money or making peoples ears bleed with noise. Any interesting build threads out there? Most seem to be V8 swaps (NOT ON THE TABLE)

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote: I have more thoughts, but I need help from you guys to convince him that it would be worth it to travel a bit to find the right (ie, rust-free) car, since he wants to keep it for 10+ years.

Give me your thoughts. I'm not agaisnt traveling for a car, but by they time you've done a 500 mile round trip that's another $200 you could add to the local budget. You made the same point yourself in the Cheap Milwaukee BMW engine thread today.

I did, but I was talking about an engine that I don't really need for a car I already have. You are talking about a car that you will be emotionally invested in (I know you) for a decade-plus. If getting the right one means you subtract a bit from your budget to make a road trip for a cleaner example, I think it's worth it.

I'm obviously biased and have been trying to push Ade towards an E30 all summer, including going to look at a couple with him. I just think it's a damn-near unbeatable combination of cheapness, strong aftermarket and internet support, a pretty decent suspension setup that doesn't need a welder to make it very good, and an engine bay that will accept all kinds of crazy powerplants to replace the already-decent stock one.

As for the others: Miata: I've had one, autocrossed several others, and I like them, but it wasn't for me. Too small, too underpowered, and the convertible thing is a big negative for rallycross and track days. Roll bars aren't cheap and they tend to limit seat travel.

Fiat Spider: Well, they are pretty, but other than that it seems to me you'd be better off with a Miata, but it still has all the Miata's negatives.

XR4Ti: If you can find a decent one, I say go for it. Good power in stock form, a valve away from silly power, decent chassis, funky styling that you won't see yourself coming and going, it's a Ford.

RX-7s: I've had one of these (FB), too, and that experience left me feeling that these are great cars as soon as you rip that rotary out and put in a real engine. Sorry....

924/944: I'd go 944 all day for the looks, but good luck finding a cheap, decent one. Aftermarket is there, but the parts still tend to be expensive. Then there's the double whammy of clutch and timing belt. I love these, but not on a tight budget.

Saab: Yes, it's a bit out of left field, but you have to love 80s turbo motors and all their potential. Undeniable rally heritage, rarity, and retro-cool factor. Downsides are the FWD and I have no idea how the aftermarket is for these, but it can't be as good as the Miata or E30. Plus, they are hard to find.

I know nothing about those old Volvos, so moving on.

Sciriocco: Another classic of 80s styling, and (as I understand it) Mk. 1 Golf/Rabbit underpinnings mean lots of parts availability and interchange. They don't seem to be too expensive, either. Limited power potential, though, and FWD, of course.

Anyhow, the answer is E30.

tuna55 wrote: A 122 is a great choice. I can tell you all about handling and braking mods.

Speak to me oh great Obi Wan Tuna Chucker, show me thy pocket lint wisdom of stop and turn!

Great responses all, please keep strocking my ego, eerrr I mean helping me.

I should have pics being e-mailed to me of a 900 turbo later today, and for S&G I hope to look at Bastomatics Ovlov tomorrow if we can work out times.

RX7's are bubbling to the top as well.

Damn I really need to go do some work!

RexSeven wrote:

clutchsmoke wrote: No back up on my FC vote?! Where's the rotard love??

Adrian said he has owned one already. Maybe it's time for something different? Something else he mentioned was daily driving the car, and that's where I have to dock the FC points. I've 3-season daily-driven an FC before. It's comfortable and never left me stranded, but I got baked by the heat from the transmission tunnel (not fun in a humid New England summer) and the mileage was awful. I highly recommend applying heat-reflective material to the transmission tunnel and running a high-quality synthetic gear oil if you daily an FC. Not much you can do to improve the mileage besides an engine swap.

As I said I DD'd an FC when first here, gas didnt' bother me as they still give gas away for virtualy free here. I was coming from the UK where it was 2.5 times the price.

But the DD thing is overblown in my origianl post. I have the C30 and Mustang for DDing, this would be get up int he morning. 'hey, it looks nice outside, I think I'll take the toy to work today' kind of DD ing. i.e once ever few weeks in the summer. Now, if I happen to end up with a great rallycross type car, the winters not going to be much fun with a Mustang and if I happen to have some snow tires for rally cross, you never know, it might end up doing more.

I would hate to move you away from a SAAB but I did see this onCL yesterday:

1987 Porsche 924 - $1500 (Circleville)

" I am selling my 1987 Porsche 924s. The car is a project car that can make a great first car or a track car for the right person. I am selling the car because I have to many projects going on at once. It is a 5 speed car and has a 4 cylinder engine. The good is that the car does run with starting fluid, the sunroof works and the engine shows no signs of a bad head gasket like most 924's and 944's. The bad is that it needs new tires and a gas tank. The body is pretty strait, but could use a paint job. If you have any questions please call or text 614-five nine five- 8367 or email me using the link above. If I do not answer right away I will get to you as soon as I'm free. Asking 1500 OBO "

I would love to get this for myself but I do not have the time/space or extra $ money right now.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

tuna55 wrote: A 122 is a great choice. I can tell you all about handling and braking mods.

Speak to me oh great Obi Wan Tuna Chucker, show me thy pocket lint wisdom of stop and turn!

Will do.

These cars have a very common Ford bolt pattern, 5x 4.5. This means that any wheels you get for the typical American car work. We bought ours from Summit for like $35 apiece.

The brakes are amazing for stopping power, but the discs are solid, contain the hub, and are expensive and difficult to find. The calipers are very weird. Cast iron THREE piston (two little ones on one side, one big one on the other) jobs that work VERY well (a panic stop from an Amazon I was flat towing with my truck felt just like a panic stop from the truck!) when cold, but crappy when hot. Lemons destroyed them and we decided to change them. Pads for them are expensive and hard to find in the right compounds.

It turns out that Mustang calipers are very close. A few hours machining a plate to adapt them (very very easy, all 2D) and we bolted modern aluminum calipers to the Amazon with great pad compound choices.

We used 240SX rotors somehow, from the 5 lug SE version.

The turning bit is even more easy. We found that the ground clearance is approximately 67 feet as measured by the oil pan. We dropped it like 6" (Seriously) in the rear by cutting the stock springs and shoving them back in with some straps to limit the travel in droop. We also cut the front springs to drop it a great deal. The front end adjusts camber very easily as it is SLA, so we made up a block of aluminum like 2" thick and drilled two holes in it and made a "shim" for the upper mount to get 2-3 degrees.

The B20 or B18 make an excellent engine. Tractable. It doesn't need high RPM to make power, but they are capable of 7 grand in spurts. Pushrods rock. A few different cams and heads are around. The SUs seem to work pretty well, and you can mess around with factory available header type manifolds. Expect to fiddle your way into 120-140 hp on a 85 hp stock engine if you don't mind opening it up. Even at 85 HP, it's not too bad.

The stock transmission is very compact and light. Love the feel, although the shifter pokes out near the firewall and the throws are long, but who really cares.

The rear end is a Dana 30 I think. a LSD is around, but not inexpensive or easy to find. It's strong enough.

A nice easy car to work on, a nice, fun car to drive. It's light enough that it feels fast enough stock, and can actually be quite the performer if you warm it up a bit.

VCH may post here, he knows A LOT about these cars, he's probably owned better than a dozen.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: As I said I DD'd an FC when first here, gas didnt' bother me as they still give gas away for virtualy free here. I was coming from the UK where it was 2.5 times the price. But the DD thing is overblown in my origianl post. I have the C30 and Mustang for DDing, this would be get up int he morning. 'hey, it looks nice outside, I think I'll take the toy to work today' kind of DD ing. i.e once ever few weeks in the summer. Now, if I happen to end up with a great rallycross type car, the winters not going to be much fun with a Mustang and if I happen to have some snow tires for rally cross, you never know, it might end up doing more.

I loved my FC, but the mileage hurt because I was in between jobs when I first started daily driving it.

If you can find a GVR4 or Legacy Sport Sedan (1991)/Turbo Sedan (92-94)/LE Turbo Wagon (92-93), congrats, you've found a unicorn! Much like the 323 GTX and Celica All-trac (USDM name for GT-Four), they were built in small numbers and well before Gran Turismo and Initial D showed us Philistines what rally homologation cars were capable of.

The Legacy Turbos had a 165hp 2.2L turbo boxer rather than the full-tilt 2.0L the overseas versions and WRX had. I don't know how much aftermarket support is available for them, but since pre-2007 Subarus were built like Lego sets you might be able to adapt GC Impreza parts to fit.

Only 3000 Galant VR-4s were imported to the US. The aftermarket for the engine is obviously huge and since it was shared with the DSM triplets replacement and hop-up parts are easy to find. Suspension choices are dwindling but DSM and Evo VIII-X parts can be adapted to fit. What aren't easy to find are any discontinued, bespoke GVR4 parts like the bumper covers. Mind the bollards!

The old Legacy Turbo motors are obscenely strong as well...

Not real refined, but they'll hold up and take a licking while packing a punch.

Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: I would hate to move you away from a SAAB but I did see this onCL yesterday: 1987 Porsche 924 - $1500 (Circleville) " I am selling my 1987 Porsche 924s. The car is a project car that can make a great first car or a track car for the right person. I am selling the car because I have to many projects going on at once. It is a 5 speed car and has a 4 cylinder engine. The good is that the car does run with starting fluid, the sunroof works and the engine shows no signs of a bad head gasket like most 924's and 944's. The bad is that it needs new tires and a gas tank. The body is pretty strait, but could use a paint job. If you have any questions please call or text 614-five nine five- 8367 or email me using the link above. If I do not answer right away I will get to you as soon as I'm free. Asking 1500 OBO " I would love to get this for myself but I do not have the time/space or extra $ money right now.

OK peanut gallary, thoughts on this, bolding mine above. It's a bit beyond my current price range until a few more bits sell, but definitly in the possible maybee range if it's around in a couple of weeks. I'm assuming no rust but I will e-mail the guy

Edit e-mail sent

tuna55 wrote: Will do. These cars have a very common Ford bolt pattern, 5x 4.5. This means that any wheels you get for the typical American car work. We bought ours from Summit for like $35 apiece. The brakes are amazing for stopping power, but the discs are solid, contain the hub, and are expensive and difficult to find. The calipers are very weird. Cast iron THREE piston (two little ones on one side, one big one on the other) jobs that work VERY well (a panic stop from an Amazon I was flat towing with my truck felt just like a panic stop from the truck!) when cold, but crappy when hot. Lemons destroyed them and we decided to change them. Pads for them are expensive and hard to find in the right compounds. It turns out that Mustang calipers are very close. A few hours machining a plate to adapt them (very very easy, all 2D) and we bolted modern aluminum calipers to the Amazon with great pad compound choices. We used 240SX rotors somehow, from the 5 lug SE version. The turning bit is even more easy. We found that the ground clearance is approximately 67 feet as measured by the oil pan. We dropped it like 6" (Seriously) in the rear by cutting the stock springs and shoving them back in with some straps to limit the travel in droop. We also cut the front springs to drop it a great deal. The front end adjusts camber very easily as it is SLA, so we made up a block of aluminum like 2" thick and drilled two holes in it and made a "shim" for the upper mount to get 2-3 degrees. The B20 or B18 make an excellent engine. Tractable. It doesn't need high RPM to make power, but they are capable of 7 grand in spurts. Pushrods rock. A few different cams and heads are around. The SUs seem to work pretty well, and you can mess around with factory available header type manifolds. Expect to fiddle your way into 120-140 hp on a 85 hp stock engine if you don't mind opening it up. Even at 85 HP, it's not too bad. The stock transmission is very compact and light. Love the feel, although the shifter pokes out near the firewall and the throws are long, but who really cares. The rear end is a Dana 30 I think. a LSD is around, but not inexpensive or easy to find. It's strong enough. A nice easy car to work on, a nice, fun car to drive. It's light enough that it feels fast enough stock, and can actually be quite the performer if you warm it up a bit. VCH may post here, he knows A LOT about these cars, he's probably owned better than a dozen.

This was a very bad post from my want factor. That easy huh?

What did the Dana 30 LSD come in, are there other options? Does all this transfer over to 140's?

RexSeven wrote: If you can find a GVR4 or Legacy Sport Sedan (1991)/Turbo Sedan (92-94)/LE Turbo Wagon (92-93), congrats, you've found a unicorn! Much like the 323 GTX and Celica All-trac (USDM name for GT-Four), they were built in small numbers and well before Gran Turismo and Initial D showed us Philistines what rally homologation cars were capable of. The Legacy Turbos had a 165hp 2.2L turbo boxer rather than the full-tilt 2.0L the overseas versions and WRX had. I don't know how much aftermarket support is available for them, but since pre-2007 Subarus were built like Lego sets you might be able to adapt GC Impreza parts to fit. Only 3000 Galant VR-4s were imported to the US. The aftermarket for the engine is obviously huge and since it was shared with the DSM triplets replacement and hop-up parts are easy to find. Suspension choices are dwindling but DSM and Evo VIII-X parts can be adapted to fit. What aren't easy to find are any discontinued, bespoke GVR4 parts like the bumper covers. Mind the bollards!

Yup, last time I went idealy looking for Legacy turbo's I think I found exactly ZERO with a manual trans for sale on a nationwide serch. VR4's aren't as bed but semi unicorn status. No interest in the GT$, too heavy and complex. I've had a 323GTX, too fragile a trans.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

clutchsmoke wrote: No back up on my FC vote?! Where's the rotard love??

Tell me about making power with out spending money or making peoples ears bleed with noise. Any interesting build threads out there? Most seem to be V8 swaps (NOT ON THE TABLE)

Side draft carb, full exhaust, no presilencer twin RB street mufflers, WOT is 97 decibel, faulty voltage, junkyard parts built motor still put down 132whp 127wtq with minimal mods. My tires cost more than my engine build. I build the engine with 90% used parts and I basically finished and said "I give it a year.. then I can afford to do it right!"

its been almost 4 year since then and I've barely lost any compression.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Will do. These cars have a very common Ford bolt pattern, 5x 4.5. This means that any wheels you get for the typical American car work. We bought ours from Summit for like $35 apiece. The brakes are amazing for stopping power, but the discs are solid, contain the hub, and are expensive and difficult to find. The calipers are very weird. Cast iron THREE piston (two little ones on one side, one big one on the other) jobs that work VERY well (a panic stop from an Amazon I was flat towing with my truck felt just like a panic stop from the truck!) when cold, but crappy when hot. Lemons destroyed them and we decided to change them. Pads for them are expensive and hard to find in the right compounds. It turns out that Mustang calipers are very close. A few hours machining a plate to adapt them (very very easy, all 2D) and we bolted modern aluminum calipers to the Amazon with great pad compound choices. We used 240SX rotors somehow, from the 5 lug SE version. The turning bit is even more easy. We found that the ground clearance is approximately 67 feet as measured by the oil pan. We dropped it like 6" (Seriously) in the rear by cutting the stock springs and shoving them back in with some straps to limit the travel in droop. We also cut the front springs to drop it a great deal. The front end adjusts camber very easily as it is SLA, so we made up a block of aluminum like 2" thick and drilled two holes in it and made a "shim" for the upper mount to get 2-3 degrees. The B20 or B18 make an excellent engine. Tractable. It doesn't need high RPM to make power, but they are capable of 7 grand in spurts. Pushrods rock. A few different cams and heads are around. The SUs seem to work pretty well, and you can mess around with factory available header type manifolds. Expect to fiddle your way into 120-140 hp on a 85 hp stock engine if you don't mind opening it up. Even at 85 HP, it's not too bad. The stock transmission is very compact and light. Love the feel, although the shifter pokes out near the firewall and the throws are long, but who really cares. The rear end is a Dana 30 I think. a LSD is around, but not inexpensive or easy to find. It's strong enough. A nice easy car to work on, a nice, fun car to drive. It's light enough that it feels fast enough stock, and can actually be quite the performer if you warm it up a bit. VCH may post here, he knows A LOT about these cars, he's probably owned better than a dozen.

This was a very bad post from my want factor. That easy huh? What did the Dana 30 LSD come in, are there other options? Does all this transfer over to 140's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_30

Front end of Jeeps. We changed ratios to a 4.88 with a used ring and pinion. It's a tapered axle rear, so it's robust in terms of not suffering from the silliness a GM or AMC rear does. It's the press-in style, just like any Dana, so it can be easily changed with shop tools. Mike made one and it worked great. here is me testing out the new and old ring gears:

And here's some more eye candy:

I'd vote FC but I've never daily driven one. I did however melt a bunch of sound deadening onto my racing shoes in mine.

I daily drove mine for a few years, semi comfortable but then again I'm 6'4"

Also, those volvos are sexy.

OK, no response from the Ohio 924S and no pics from the SAAB guy, don’t these people want to sell their cars. That V8 XR4ti sold fast.

OK, I’m in no rush, I’m still selling stuff and have time, I hope more cars will come up between Thanksgiving and Xmas as people decide they need Xmas present money.

I’m asking about rust over on Saabrally.com, people there seem to think that wheel arch rust is a big issue as it comes from the inside and is probably structural. What say the peanut gallery here? Also I need to carefully check the front frame rails/engine mount/suspension area, they are prone to rot there.

Let’s talk more about FC TRx7, how do you make power there without too much noise? Carb’s are out on rotaries to me, I remember the issues Tom had with his FB on a carb. Any rotor would have to be fee 13b, no 12A FB’s. What do you get with a header, exhaust and some kind of intake, anything worthwhile?

The 13B wakes up a lot by letting it breathe. Full exhaust and an intake will net you some surprising butt-dyno gains and doesn't neccessarily mean ear-splitting noise if you get quality components.

DaveEstey wrote: The 13B wakes up a lot by letting it breathe. Full exhaust and an intake will net you some surprising butt-dyno gains and doesn't neccessarily mean ear-splitting noise if you get quality components.

Define quality, what about this stuff?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacesetter-Exhaust-Header-Systems-84-92-Mazda-RX7-RX-7-1-3L-13B-EXC-Convertible-/400283144942?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d32bc12ee&vxp=mtr

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-92-Mazda-RX7-13B-FC3S-OBX-Exhaust-System-13B-RX-7-/150928664267?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true

Plus a home brewed cold air intake that keeps the barn door AFM

Or is this cheap E36 M3?

What about a CAT? is that a deal killer because I want to keep a cat on any car.

When I say quality I basically mean RacingBeat. What you linked is almost destined to be obnoxious.

An aftermarket cat can be welded in - it's the OEM cats that are a big drag on performance.

This is mine with stock header and RacingBeat catback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWW-zaOp5Z0&feature=youtu.be

QUIET. In fact I'm hoping to make it louder.

DaveEstey wrote: When I say quality I basically mean RacingBeat. What you linked is almost destined to be obnoxious. An aftermarket cat can be welded in - it's the OEM cats that are a big drag on performance. This is mine with stock header and RacingBeat catback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWW-zaOp5Z0&feature=youtu.be QUIET. In fact I'm hoping to make it louder.

Wow, that did sound quiet. What's the total set up? RB from front to back? I see it's still duel exhaust, is that needed or just for the bling factor?

Missed this one, gone already http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/3292262006.html

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: When I say quality I basically mean RacingBeat. What you linked is almost destined to be obnoxious. An aftermarket cat can be welded in - it's the OEM cats that are a big drag on performance. This is mine with stock header and RacingBeat catback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWW-zaOp5Z0&feature=youtu.be QUIET. In fact I'm hoping to make it louder.

Wow, that did sound quiet. What's the total set up? RB from front to back? I see it's still duel exhaust, is that needed or just for the bling factor?

RB from the cat back. Double cans is what keeps it quiet in addition to the stock header. Every single exit exhaust I've seen with a rotary is loud.

I'm replacing it all with a race setup, which will be both louder and a little more powerful. As it is I can't hear the engine with my helmet on and I don't consider that to be a great thing in a race car. Sound is important.

It's this one: http://www.racingbeat.com/RX7-1986-1992/Cat-Back-Exhausts/16420.html

I'll be moving on to this one: http://www.racingbeat.com/RX7-1986-1992/Complete-Exhaust-Systems/16451.html

I had a full RB exhaust on my FB. Very good, quality stuff, thick tubing for those high rotary exhaust temps, so it certainly wasn't light. It was also about $1000 or so for the whole thing. 12 years ago.