Old School 510 maintain vintage goodness or update?

Do anything you want, but if it were my car it would be modified as much as I felt like with out needing a welder or cutting torch, so bolt on. I'll take back the welder bit in case I wanted to seam weld it or add some stiffeners.

bravenrace wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Anyone who thinks it should have been kept original should have bought it themselves to preserve. It's up to the owner. I say, make it interesting and fun. If every 510 had been kept stock, they'd just be another generic Japanese sedan. Modification is what gave them the reputation they have.

Anyone that thinks it should be modified should have bought it themselves. By your logic, nobody can have any opinion about a car they don't own. I guess that's the end of this forum...

You can have opinions, they just don't mean anything unless you own the car!

If you value a car for being stock because "there aren't many left", you're simply a caretaker. You're worried more about what the next owner will think instead of the car as a functioning object. The next owner (and the opinion of other spectators out there, both IRL and online) become more important than you. If it's ultra-low mileage, you can't even drive it. The only reason to own a car like that is as a museum piece or an investment.

This is particularly true for cars like the 510. Vanilla cars that got their reputation due to a burgeoning aftermarket scene and/or race history. There's a reason that 83% of all 510s have BRE livery. All a stock one has ever been was raw material.

So there is a big difference between saying "do what you want" and "you need to keep it stock". One is inherently selfish, because the non-owner wants the car to be stock for no other reason than to look at it or so they can buy it someday. What does the owner get out of that? Telling someone to do what they want means you're supportive of their decisions.

Forget preservation for future owners. That's no fun. Go ahead and modify if you want. Chop up that engine bay to put in a Cummins B4T, drop in a live rear axle, whatever floats your boat. It's just metal and glass.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Okay, thanks for the lesson, Professor Contradiction. I'm just glad your opinion doesn't mean anything here, because you don't own the car.
The OP asked for opinions. The only thing incorrect in this thread is the implication that some opinions are wrong.

Well the owner can do whatever he wants. My philosophy is to generally keeps it simple. Replace worn bushings, upgrade the brakes for safety and ease of maintenance , upgrade to a wheel size that is easier to find tires for while not going too large. If the engine is in good condition, make it reliable and maybe throw some side drafts on there and have fun. Less time in the garage means more time on the road.

sanman wrote: Well the owner can do whatever he wants. My philosophy is to generally keeps it simple. Replace worn bushings, upgrade the brakes for safety and ease of maintenance , upgrade to a wheel size that is easier to find tires for while not going too large. If the engine is in good condition, make it reliable and maybe throw some side drafts on there and have fun. Less time in the garage means more time on the road.

+1 to this. Keep it simple and enjoy it. Getting a modern motor swapped in correctly and making things all crazy may only result in frustration. Modernize it, but keep the "original" feel of the car. But it isn't my car, and I won't be mad if he guts it and makes it a race car or takes the time to put in some crazy motor swap. The only thing that makes me mad with old cars like this is when people try to do the Fast & Furious look with them...no 17" Motegis, please.

In reply to freestyle:

In 6 months it will be a basket case and you can buy it cheap...

David S. Wallens wrote: It's his car, but I'd vote to keep it period correct. We have chopped up enough 510s.

Are there any cars as routinely hacked as Datsuns? What kills me is that Craigslist is filled with aborted builds, yet they still want good money for them. I'm starting to think that there's something in the paint on those old cars that makes their owners delusional.

I'd vote for mild, reversable build. Mikuni Carbs, upgraded wheels, tires and suspension bits. Save the old stuff.

I wouldn't cut it up.

They have hit a point now where they have more value together I think. Maybe not financial value but in terms of it's status as an early Japanese classic car.

I'd probably 'Day 2' it and put on the Webers and period correct wheels.

Yes

I'm not saying keep it stock, but keep it in one piece and upgrade bits. Not cut up the car and weld bits to put a SR20 in there.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Okay, thanks for the lesson, Professor Contradiction. I'm just glad your opinion doesn't mean anything here, because you don't own the car. The OP asked for opinions. The only thing incorrect in this thread is the implication that some opinions are wrong.

Step away from the computer and grab a beer.

You're taking this conversation way too seriously. It's not even the OPs car. Geez.

In reply to z31maniac

I already have a beer.

Let's turn back my "cars that I have owned" for a review.

My 1972 510, white with a turquoise interior, came with an auto. I installed a SSS L-18, 4 speed, 14x6 polished slotted dish mags and 240Z rear drums.

The car was quick, attracted almost no attention and embarrassed it's fair share of late 80's fast cars. It did not like snow, at all. Was replaced by my first new car, 1987 Subaru GL Wagon.

That thing only went one speed, snow or no snow. But my wife and the first little one were always safe.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Okay, thanks for the lesson, Professor Contradiction. I'm just glad your opinion doesn't mean anything here, because you don't own the car. The OP asked for opinions. The only thing incorrect in this thread is the implication that some opinions are wrong.

I was kind of feeling the same way. I simply gave my opinion on it and my own opinion was challenged. That response was completely irrelevant to my thoughts. Guess I better go undo all the work I've had done on my car so I won't appear "selfish" to others.

Gearheadotaku wrote: I've seen lots of cars updated, engine swapped etc in ways that can be easily put back to stock. Often the engine and others parts are neatly crated in the corner ready to put back on. When was the last time anyone put a properly modified car "back to stock"?

"Properly" being the key word.

I wish that people would take a poorly modified car back to stock.

Ransom wrote: Whatever he wants to enjoy it. Says the guy gearing up for putting a mid-'90s M42 into his '70 2002, along with a host of other mods I need to shut up about 'til my talking:doing ratio improves.

A guy here at work is in the throws of doing the same swap. Even swapping in a 5 speed and MegaSquirting it while he's at it. But, alas, he's afraid of being all consumed by this place, me thinks.

qdseeker wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Okay, thanks for the lesson, Professor Contradiction. I'm just glad your opinion doesn't mean anything here, because you don't own the car. The OP asked for opinions. The only thing incorrect in this thread is the implication that some opinions are wrong.

I was kind of feeling the same way. I simply gave my opinion on it and my own opinion was challenged. That response was completely irrelevant to my thoughts. Guess I better go undo all the work I've had done on my car so I won't appear "selfish" to others.

I apologize, I apparently got under people's skin with that.

Modifying your own car isn't selfish. It's your car, you paid for it. Okay, I guess it is selfish in a way but again, you paid for it so you have the right.

Telling someone they should keep their car unmodified is, because the only reason you want them to keep it unmodified is for your own benefit - and you have no stake in it. It doesn't benefit them at all unless you're giving investment advice. And even then, their ownership experience will suffer because they're only thinking about what the next owner will want.

Personally, I like seeing interesting cars. Very rarely does that mean they are survivors. Usually it means it's a car that someone's thought about quite a bit, created a mental image of the ideal version of that car, and made it exist.

Keith, I didn't see anywhere where anyone told how to "build" the car. We were asked our thoughts on what we would do.

I guess I just don't follow/see your logic, dude.

Me neither. It's okay to have the opinion that someone else should modify their car, but it's not okay to have the opinion that they shouldn't, because you don't own it? And it's okay for some people to have opinions on a largely opinion forum, but not others?

We'll just chalk this up to mutual misunderstanding.

In reply to freestyle: When I found/dug out/unearthed my 70' beetle, it was a true barn find. 28k miles, zero rust, all stock down to the damn original tires I got it running and went through the brakes replacing everything for safety. Then all new fluids, a tune up and started driving it. Yes with the original tires! Never went anywhere far, just local car cruises or take the kids for ice cream, that kind of thing. Anyway people were really quite extreme about the way they saw it. Everyone loved it, but the original guys would go over the top about how it had to be kept just like it was made. I swear one guy at the local ice cream shop was foaming at the mouth about how people hack and cut up cars and ... Then most of my friends saw it as a blank canvas, what was I going to do with it. Since it was mine, I was rather apprehensive about making major permanent changes to it, since it was so original and nice. At that point I didn't even want to drive do to the low miles. It wasn't any fun to have it anymore, and I thought about selling it. The next summer when I brought it out of storage, my 3 year old walked around the back of the house and saw it. He ran up to it and hugged the right rear fender for about 10 minutes. They only way I got him to let go, was to take him for a ride. Now I couldn't get rid of the beetle for anything, and I am offered lots for it every time I drive it. Anyway I did start changing things a bit to suit my own tastes, disk brakes, lowered slightly, header, carb, bumpers. I decided that I wouldn't change anything that couldn't be undone with a few bolts. And now we enjoy driving the car frequently. It runs great, stops safely, and is a simple joy to drive.

Personally I would try and get your friend to be realistic about his goals. While having the latest greatest fantastic unobtainium swap sounds fantabulous, how realistic is it do to money, time, skill etc...? If he can finish the project the way he wants, that's way cool, more power to him! That's why this forum is one of the biggest enablers around. But seeing someone cut up a nice running driving car, then not finishing it, or worse, cutting it so badly he ends up with scrap metal, is no good. Good luck to him and keep us posted on what he does with it. Maybe so one of us can buy it from him
Paul