John's letter about starting with a car one already owns and the comment about a Camry project car gave me an idea for what could be an interesting pair of projects. The theme: If you already have a car but it doesn't seem to have much potential, is it better to mod it anyway, or start with something else? This would take a pair of project cars and compare them.
One would be a Camry that's had X amount of money spent on mods. The other one would be to take X amount of money to buy a second car, make any needed repairs, and throw some off the shelf, bolt on parts at it. Denny Crabill-esque fabrication would be off the table, but not things like bolt on turbo kits. Which would win?
Depends on what "$X" is.
I'd say the threshold would be $2-3k for the Camry to win.
That assumes you can actually do something to make a Camry handle better without going into a bunch of weird custom work.
Per Schroeder
Technical Editor/Advertising Director
7/13/12 9:45 a.m.
I can make a Camry handle considerably better for under $30. Get four of the 2-dot camber bolts from the dealership.
This would be a Very intersting Article. What is faster at autox and a trackday. V6 Camry + $3k in mods vs $3k Miata
Sky_Render wrote:
That assumes you can actually do something to make a Camry handle better without going into a bunch of weird custom work.
Pretty easy, actually. Believe it or not, there IS aftermarket for these things.
I'm assuming we're talking a cheap 90s-era Camry, btw.
The long and short of it is, anything you can do to a Celica, you can do to a Camry.
nocones wrote:
This would be a Very intersting Article. What is faster at autox and a trackday. V6 Camry + $3k in mods vs $3k Miata
I think we should go at least for a 5spd. V6 5spd Camrys aren't easy to find, but there's plenty 4 bangers.
Raze
SuperDork
7/13/12 10:06 a.m.
nocones wrote:
This would be a Very intersting Article. What is faster at autox and a trackday. V6 Camry + $3k in mods vs $3k Miata
After having done this with the XR4, me and my buddies involved agree another car would have been more prudent as far as performance. As far as a teaching aid and cheap/junkyard performance parts availability, we chose correctly. So again, there is always a tradeoff...
Guy in NW has All-Trac Camry spouten over 260hp and over 200#/ft
Heh, i've read his build thread a few times. That car rules.
I had an Alltrac for a while there. Blew the motor and was planning on doing a 3S-GTE swap but never really had the money and eventually just sent it to the scrapyard.
But, the suspension in those really isn't that bad, and I'm pretty sure you can at least get Tokico blues for all four corners.
The FE versions of the S blocks aren't real fantastic IMO and have oiling issues (why I blew mine), but with a little care that shouldn't be an unresolvable issue.
ReverendDexter wrote:
I had an Alltrac for a while there. Blew the motor and was planning on doing a 3S-GTE swap but never really had the money and eventually just sent it to the scrapyard.
But, the suspension in those really isn't that bad, and I'm pretty sure you can at least get Tokico blues for all four corners.
The FE versions of the S blocks aren't real fantastic IMO and have oiling issues (why I blew mine), but with a little care that shouldn't be an unresolvable issue.
Tokicos, koni inserts, there's a few full coilover assemblies available.
So, what's cooler, Camry or P71?
In reply to David S. Wallens:
Missing the point. I don't know many people that have just "happened" into a p71 for standard transport unlike the camry/grand am/stratus/tauras/newer corrolas/ etc... that have been in everyones driveway at one point or another. Starting with a RWD V8 car that is already cool is defeating the purpose... at least in my eyes.
Camry vs. Stratus builds, two teams enter with $5k and they have to find a car with that budget as well as build?
pres589 wrote:
Camry vs. Stratus builds, two teams enter with $5k and they have to find a car with that budget as well as build?
That's a tough choice... Stratus is SLA front/rear and you might get lucky enough to find a totaled PT GT to steal a turbo motor out of... but the Camry will actually run long enough to get to the starting line.
singleslammer wrote:
In reply to David S. Wallens:
Missing the point. I don't know many people that have just "happened" into a p71 for standard transport unlike the camry/grand am/stratus/tauras/newer corrolas/ etc... that have been in everyones driveway at one point or another. Starting with a RWD V8 car that is already cool is defeating the purpose... at least in my eyes.
Yeah, that was how I was reading the letter - suppose somebody had been stuck with Mom's late model sedan and was trying to see if there was any hope for it. So the starting point would need to be a boring transportation appliance.
I had a '98 Camry CE (Cheap Edition) with manual door locks, crank up windows, etc. It had the 4cyl 5SFE and 5spd manual. When the original suspension wore out I went with KYB GR-2 struts, Eibach springs, Whiteline sway bars F&R shipped from Australia, a real strut tower brace, and upgraded brake pads. It definitely transformed the car for not a lot of money. However, my stock E36 328is blew it away in every department with none of the compromises (stiff ride being my biggest objection, especially after 50k on the KYB struts). Plus, the BMW actually had a decent amount of power. And in the end, it's easier to sell a stock BMW than a modded Camry.
My take-away was that it's better to start with the right platform from the get-go.
David S. Wallens wrote:
So, what's cooler, Camry or P71?
hey!
that's like asking which is better, a butter knife or a swiss army knife?
What about a Camry wagon?
In reply to belteshazzar:
Is the butter knife made of silver and from 1841?
Cressida is a total ringer and shouldn't even be discussed here.
Honestly, if I was in the market for another four door appliance sedan and for some reason didn't want a wagon, a Stratus or one of it's sister cars with a manual trans and four cylinders under the hood might get my nod. Never driven one though so what do I know...
