Since there isn't much here about the Si, I'll chime in. I had an 8th gen and then moved to a 2020 10th gen and both cars were great daily drivers and autox cars. I'm not a track day person, but David Wallens loved the 10th gen loaner the magazine had and he tracked it several times.
If you do want to consider an Si still, I can give you something to maybe worry about. My clutch started slipping at 35K (replacing it this week) and the internet says 10th gen clutches tend to fail on the early side. Maybe this isn't as big an issue as the internet says, and maybe 11th gens won't have it.
FWIW, we ran VIR 12 hours South Course this past March and in our class was an NC Miata. Not only did the thing fly past us like we were standing still, it set the fastest lap time of the day until it broke(transmission).
I was so baffled at its speed that i started wondering if it was cheating(it was not....). Bonkers how fast an NC can be with minimal suspension and bolt on parts.
For under $10k, an NC Miata would certainly be on my list of fun cars after seeing that. Id have to address the transmission though. I think it lasted all of 2 hours before it broke(a really fast 2 hours for them).
Carl Heideman said:
Since there isn't much here about the Si, I'll chime in. I had an 8th gen and then moved to a 2020 10th gen and both cars were great daily drivers and autox cars. I'm not a track day person, but David Wallens loved the 10th gen loaner the magazine had and he tracked it several times.
If you do want to consider an Si still, I can give you something to maybe worry about. My clutch started slipping at 35K (replacing it this week) and the internet says 10th gen clutches tend to fail on the early side. Maybe this isn't as big an issue as the internet says, and maybe 11th gens won't have it.
Yeah, I've heard that the moment you tune a Civic the clutch starts slipping so it's probably not meant to handle the kind of torque it can have. That's not a bad thing though... clutch replacements are cheaper than transmissions.
One option would be to go with an older Toyobaru for a fraction of the price of a new one. It's a very similar car and the weak points are well-known by now and you can address them with just a small fraction of the savings. I went this direction when I saw the specs on the 2.4L model and decided it wasn't worth the price difference - of course it turned out to be more powerful than the numbers showed back then, but I don't think that would've been enough to change my decision. One rarely-discussed downside of these is the insurance costs - Toyobarus are the most-crashed models in the world apparently (although I'd love to see evidence in a junkyard so I can get some parts) and insurance on them is surprisingly expensive as a result. 2017 and newer models have some reliability fixes and drivetrain improvements over the older models.
The ND2 is a similar-performing car, the big difference is that it throws practicality under the bus to gain the lightness that grants this performance. If you can live with the tiny cargo capacity and a hard cap of 1 passenger then that could also be a good option. They're lighter on consumables and insurance than a Toyobaru.
A newer Civic Si is also a good option and can come close to a Toyobaru's performance with fairly light mods. The main downside might be that they don't have the fun handling characteristics of the RWD options even if they can be nearly as capable.
Other options to consider: Ford Fiesta or Focus - if you're considering a Civic Si these are other good options to consider.
Camaro or Mustang - Great deals in overall dollars vs. performance these days. I weighed these options against a Toyobaru before I bought one but steered away from them due to the higher running costs, in this aspect they're in a different league to the other cars you're considering, but if paying the higher running costs is an option you should keep them in mind.
RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) said:
WonkoTheSane said:
Another ND2 RF owner, I just rolled over 10k on the way to instruct at Pocono yesterday. I think this is the perfect car if you're not too worried about cargo capacity (I can fit a normal weekly 3-bag grocery run in the trunk, but leave it at home for a Costco run!).
I can't speak to long term reliability as I've only made it through one oil change.
Out of the box, it is brilliant. I need to get around to doing an alignment, and I'd like to get a set of sways from FM, but they're not really necessary for normal twisty street use.
The one mod that is totally worth it is the top control module that lets the top turn into a one-touch up/down. As a long-time Miata guy, it kinda breaks the immersion when you have to hold down the button for a whole 12 seconds to put the top up or down. I know, I know, first world problems, but it really does make a difference in that undefinable "fun" factor.
You were at MPACT?
Anyways, the more I think about it I think I might just spring for the ND2. Seems to have its issues band aided enough and I also see transmission prices have gone down. Thanks for the info/ideas everyone!
Yessir! Blue Rf w/ white interior.
kevinatfms said:
FWIW, we ran VIR 12 hours South Course this past March and in our class was an NC Miata. Not only did the thing fly past us like we were standing still, it set the fastest lap time of the day until it broke(transmission).
I was so baffled at its speed that i started wondering if it was cheating(it was not....). Bonkers how fast an NC can be with minimal suspension and bolt on parts.
For under $10k, an NC Miata would certainly be on my list of fun cars after seeing that. Id have to address the transmission though. I think it lasted all of 2 hours before it broke(a really fast 2 hours for them).
Yeah, it's absolutely bonkers how fast you can make an NC for little money. I didn't think the transmissions were particularly fraught with problems, but Keith would know more. I know they put the NC transmission behind the Fiat turbo motor to deal with the HP/Torques as opposed to the ND1's "lightweight" transmission.
You can always blow up a transmission on track, though. We lost one at the Glen in our NA because the guy (his words) "shifted like a retard." I know you can eat them at NHMS pretty good transitioning off the hill onto the oval, too. You take out the shift forks. I don't know if the NCs suffer the same problems, though.
I have a 10th gen Si as a daily too. I'm keeping the drivetrain bone stock for fuel economy reasons. I just passed 13k and it does exactly what I need it to do. I have a coupe, but the sedan is very roomy. I considered an ND for yet same purpose but the roomier and more fuel efficient Civic won out for me. You'll be pretty happy with either I'd imagine.
