Opinion on X3

2004 X3

As you all know I have been looking for a while for a new car. I found this and it seems to push all the buttons and then some.

Give me your opinion on pricing, issues, etc.

Is there a compelling reason to buy this over an E46 AWD wagon? The X3 will be heavier, taller, less fuel efficient, and immeasurably less cool. I know I wouldn't pay near that much for one, but I have no idea where the market stands on that opinion.

Standard M54 issues apply: cooling system, CCV, VANOS seals. Bushings will likely be on their way out. Maintenance records would be really, really nice to have.

Have you driven an X3 before? I found the ride unnecessarily stiff and choppy on the few service loaners I had, but that's a personal opinion. The lack of heated seats would be a deal killer for me but probably not as much of a problem for you. The white stripes on the seats was a custom aftermarket job as no X3 came factory with them, not my taste but there's no accounting for taste. As for pricing, take a look at the CPO listings on bmwusa.com and figure CPO adds 2-4k to the market price, although there's no way to have a CPO on a 2004 since the max coverage is 6 years from in service date. The manual transmission is a rare find but I'm willing to bet that this is one vehicle that's better with the 5 speed steptronic automatic that nearly all of them came with. I don't know of any common issues with them but some time spent perusing xoutpost would be time well spent - there's an active what to look for in a used X3 thread there now.

My height and tall children are what rule out the wagons. By the time I am comfortable my 4 seater just turned into a 3. In a 3 series my head brushes the roof.

I've driven them and actually like the stiff ride.

I have the maintenance records for this one. The cheapest I can find one at BMW is 19,200 and it spent it's life in Wisconsin.

I don't think that is white piping, but an optical illusion from the camera. I saw one on Saturday with the same interior setup. I will verify

Thanks for the Xoutpost link, I have been pursuing things on Bimmerforums.com

Towing is another issue, due to hitch height the X3, for what I need to move, is a better tow setup than the 3 or 5.

Thanks for the advice and keep it coming. You guys are always helpful

Well, it seems like your criteria do provide some compelling reasons for this over a non-X car.

Look at the records. The cooling system - all of it - should be treated as an 80-100k mile maintenance item. If it hasn't been done, budget ~$600 for parts. CCV system fails on these, potentially causing oil to be sucked from the pan into the intake and hydrolocking the engine; a few hundred in parts and a few hours will resolve that. VANOS seals were made from a material that degrades in oil (genius...); Beisan Systems makes replacements from a better material. Again, a few hundred in parts (new seals, gaskets, miscellaneous bits) and a few hours fixes it, and makes for a much smoother idle and better low end in most cases.

I'd consider all of the above pretty much mandatory unless it's been done recently. Thankfully, doing all of them at once saves some labor, as they're all in the same general area, and it's easier to get at the CCV and VANOS stuff with the radiator and fan out of the way.

02Pilot wrote: Well, it seems like your criteria do provide some compelling reasons for this over a non-X car. Look at the records. The cooling system - all of it - should be treated as an 80-100k mile maintenance item. If it hasn't been done, budget ~$600 for parts. CCV system fails on these, potentially causing oil to be sucked from the pan into the intake and hydrolocking the engine; a few hundred in parts and a few hours will resolve that. VANOS seals were made from a material that degrades in oil (genius...); Beisan Systems makes replacements from a better material. Again, a few hundred in parts (new seals, gaskets, miscellaneous bits) and a few hours fixes it, and makes for a much smoother idle and better low end in most cases. I'd consider all of the above pretty much mandatory unless it's been done recently. Thankfully, doing all of them at once saves some labor, as they're all in the same general area, and it's easier to get at the CCV and VANOS stuff with the radiator and fan out of the way.

^This man speaks the BMW gospel.

Cool,

At 74K I will budget the parts out, just for clarification are you including the radiator in the cooling system overhaul?

I noticed that the BMWCCA gets discounts at B. It this worth the money?

FlightService wrote: Cool, At 74K I will budget the parts out, just for clarification are you including the radiator in the cooling system overhaul?

What I have found is

Vanos rebuild $140 (with special tools $120 without $5 shipping from Beisan Systems)

CCV Rebuild $135 (shipped from BMW dealer in ME)

Coolant system rebuild is $683 (Bimmer forums BMW dealer prices.)

I am sure I can shop those and get a little better but it gives me a great ball park.

Total $960

I can live with that as normal maintenance.

Hell not much more than the EJ25 timing belt/water pump/head gaskets/gasket kit/head bolts.

Yes, you need to replace the radiator as well.

No special tools should be necessary for the VANOS seals, but you will want to do the VANOS gasket, valve cover gasket (and the bolt o-rings), VANOS oil line seals (and the lines themselves, if they're leaking) and maybe the coil-to-plug boots (sometimes a source of misfires as they age). You may want to do the anti-rattle kit preemptively, as the 3.0 is most prone, apparently.

Make sure you get ALL the lines for the CCV in addition to the valve, since they will all crack when you try to remove them. In fact, the job is much easier if you just cut or break the old lines rather than trying to unfasten them. You might want to do the intake boots as well, since you'll have to remove them for the CCV, and they probably already have cracks in the accordion sections.

CCA discount is nice when you need parts quick from a dealer, but online prices are usually lower still.

Sweet, thanks for the info.

Nice avatar BTW

A friend has one. He's been known to take it lapping. It took me longer than I expected to track him down in my Miata the last time we went together. I went out for a session with him and was amazed at how well it did.

ZOO wrote: A friend has one. He's been known to take it lapping. It took me longer than I expected to track him down in my Miata the last time we went together. I went out for a session with him and was amazed at how well it did.

This makes me smile

I don't have too much to add other than I really want to like them but they are pretty much the worst combination of interior space and fuel mileage that can be found in a small SUV.

On second glance, what about the odometer rollback issue? It might be a clerical error, but it still puts a big dent in the car's value.

My Mom has one. Compared to dad's 5 series, it's been the poster child of reliability. Except for the goofy backup alarms and iDrive, it's not a bad driver at all. It has decent interior room too, better than a friend's Volvo V70 wagon in fact.

My opinion is that it is a small SUV. That means to me that it is a vehicle without purpose. It is not really capable as an offroader, has limited storage/cargo space, it is too small to tow much. It gets worse mileage and costs more than a small car but cannot really offer anything that a small car can't except that you sit higher and maybe the kidney grill makes you feel better about yourself.

I am always befuddled why little SUVs exist and why anyone buys them. I realize that a miata is not a car for everyone, and that people have to drive something, but why get stuck with a vehicle that comprimises on everything? Small SUV = settling in my book. A small BMW SUV = settling while spending more than the guy driving a CRV or a rav 4 or whatever other flawed small SUV you care to name.

I know this is not all that helpful to you, and I also realize that just because I do not understand nor like SUVs doesn't mean that you shouldn't, but why would you want one? What can it do that a 3 series can't?

02Pilot wrote: Is there a compelling reason to buy this over an E46 AWD wagon? The X3 will be heavier, taller, less fuel efficient, and immeasurably less cool. I know I wouldn't pay near that much for one, but I have no idea where the market stands on that opinion.

+1

I have an E46 AWD wagon. It is the same size interior as an X3 but gets real gas mileage, stops, turns and goes better than one and looks infinitely cooler.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

GPS, you are completely correct. I am beginning to rely on you to be the designated thread genius.

GPS, Otto and TJ Let's look at some at some facts here, Best in group in bold

Front Head Room (in), Front Leg Room (in), Second Head Room (in), Second Leg Room (in), Wheelbase (in)

2004 BMW X3 4dr AWD 3.0i

39.3, 40.2, 39.4, 35.8, 110.8

2004 BMW 325xi 4dr Sports Wgn AWD

37.0, 41.4, 37.6, 34.4, 107.3

2007 BMW 4dr Sports Wgn 328xi AWD

38.5, 41.1, 38.0, 34.6, 108.7

2007 BMW 4dr Sports Wgn 530xiT AWD

37.6, 41.5, 37.6, 36.0, 113.6

In no circumstances, in anyway does the 3 series from any year have as much headroom as an X3. They have a little more leg room in the most recent model, but thanks to Bimmers being generous in that category I really don't have to worry about that either. The different seating position makes up for it, also. If I could get a sedan I am comfortable in, and can still use the backseat, I am looking at a newer 5, which I can't afford, previous gen I cramp the backseat.

Most importantly I have been in many a 3, either my head hits the ceiling or I am in the back seat. Guys I am 6'4" with a 34 inch inseam, I won't fit in the 3.

I understand the anti-SUV mentality on here, and most of the time I agree but, the X3 has more headroom and rear seat space than the 3 can be had with a stick, as a usable storage area (unlike the X5). The increased ride height allows me use on the dirt trails I use, as well as foul weather conditions (don't ask, I know the 80/20 rule here but it isn't worth the fight at the house, just like the xi's it does well in snow, let's leave it there.) A near 30 mpg hwy and 18 in town is respectable (owner reports). And I fit.

So no, GPS, Otto and TJ are wrong, the X3 has more room, other than that it is a choice on function and it seems it does what I need and can afford now.

Did I mention I don't fit in 3's because I am 6'4"?

Also if anyone is wanting to buy me a 5 series there are a few 2010 535xiT 6 speeds available, I am happy to accept...

A brief comment on the room. My parent's X3 is at least as roomy as the 5 inside, maybe moreso in usable terms. Plus it can haul more stuff if you need to run to Home Depot for anything other than a full construction project. And contrary to popular belief, it is a BMW and drives like one. No, it's not a M3, but's it's light years ahead of a Tahoe or Explorer in driving pleasure. I'm not a huge SUV fan, but I could live with it. If you have to have a SUV, you could certainly do a lot worse.

In reply to FlightService:

I typically just go by A) does my head have room B) do my legs have room C) is there room behind me? The standard measurements are pretty close to worthless.

I am not saying you would fit in a 3, but tons of guys your height fit in them just fine. Then again, on this board lots of guys would claim that Manute Bol would fit in a Miata just fine if you just took some foam out of the seat.

But really none of that matters. It only matters if you like the X3.

Beyond that, the Carfax is the issue. The mileage discrepancy issue is a huge problem unless you plan on driving the car until it is basically worthless.

I believe it is a clerical issue that the BMW service records (which it has) cover. The B records do not have this issue