Opinions of Mitsu 3000GT?

My nephew is car shopping to replace his totaled '09 Civic Si.
He has sent over this link of a Mitsu 3000GT that he wants to look at. He asked my opinion but I really have not experience with these, so...
Look into it further or run away in fear?

http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/1890197658.html
Flashy red 5 speed with V6 3.0 liter engine. Has a new battery and rear brakes serviced in April 2010. New antenna mast comes with car. Perfect car for student or homemaker. Power everything except seats. CD/stereo player. Has original engine. 127K miles. Black cloth interior with great looking red exterior. $4000.

$4k seems a bit steep to me, if interested, what do you think an appropriate agreed price should be?

Note the text says, "perfect car for a ... homemaker." What do you think that means? When I see homemaker I think stay-at-home-mother???

I have heard REALLY bad things about engine access and transmission rebuild costs...

Other than that, I have heard they are fun...though heavy.

He might want to check the insurance rate before proceeding... I bet it will be high, considering he is probably young and already has a total on file with a performance car.

Nephew is 27 yrs old and he was not the "at-fault party" in totaling the Si but yes, insurance rates will be checked before purchase.

heavy cars & parts are 'spensive

Well, it kind of depends on what he wants to do with it. I.e. leave it mostly alone, mod it, race it (what kind of racing?), does he plan on doing his own work, etc.

Ive only driven a few non turbos so my experience isnt vast but it is relevant i suppose.

I like the way you sit in them. I like the view out over the hood. I like the dash design. The rear seats are completely useless. Handling is decent but nothing special, stock size tires are pretty floppy. The DOHC non turbo motor is a pretty decent runner with the 5spd. They're over-rated about 20hp when stock but even then its enough to do mid to low 15s in that heavy car. They're pretty happy revving to 7k so that adds a bit of fun. The motor itself can easily be revved much higher with the supporting airflow mods. The hard parts are already super strong. If he wants power you can get 600whp out of that longblock with stock pistons and everything.

Important maintenance things: Timing belts. If that timing belt hasnt been changed, change it RIGHT AWAY. If it was changed a long time ago, like 60-80k, i would probably change it again. Those things will wreck a bunch of expensive valves if anything goes wrong with the timing belt. Also, beware of low oil pressure. Most of those motors die because of oil pressure issues. If it's got any kind of knock other than lifter noise, i would skip on it.

Overall i really like the cars and im halfway sorta looking for one.

Oh, and that price isnt too far from the norm. These things have a LOT of resale value compared to other cars of the era and if it's nice i would say that price isnt out of line. Of course i would still try to get it for $3k

I would expect it to be mostly stock, his past cars have all been. He is not an autocrosser more just looking for an enjoyable and playful commuter.

Basic maint and repairs done my himself just fine but not experienced at more "open engine" or trans work which would typically be farmed out. The real intention is to avoid purchases that will clearly need heavy work.

Good to know that it is an interference design.

Thanks for the input on price. I figured that like the Nissan 240sx, the "blue books" really do not reflect real purchase prices.

The transmission is standard turbo DSM fare, the NT 3000GTs and turbo DSMs use the same transmissions. The engine is an interference design. Fortunately there are great resources out there for these cars, and the price seems in line.

I got one up to 1000Hp and 240+MPH... In GT1

We had on local in the club, turbo, well cared for. It was incredibly fast. It met it's demise against a tree. Car didn't survive but the driver did. Which is an all important factor. It was at a hill climb. Hit hard enough that we had to pull parts of the tranny case out of the tree, that were lodged in like spikes. Very sobering moment. He only had a minor injury, which is amazing.

Heavy, GT car , drive it to work and enjoy. Just don't take it out on the track.... Fat Pig comes to mind the last time I drove one....

Being fair, it was a nice car in its day. Just a heavy one

I had a '92 Stealth RT/TT that I loved, but expensive maintenance was just around the corner. Bought it with 25k miles, sold it with 150k, and all it ever needed was a clutch.

They're complex cars (less so without the turbos and AWD and 4 wheel steering and active aero and electronically adjustable suspension and electronically adjustable exhaust et cetera et cetera...) and heavy. Accessibility in the engine bay is just about non-existent. Lifter tick when the engine is cold is common, and not too worrisome if is disappears when warm.

If it has good maintenance records, I'd say it's pretty safe.

For what it's worth, a nearly-identical Stealth will generally go for a couple grand less than a 3kGT. $4k seems a little high, but I'm no expert.

I know those are popular with a certain crowd, but I guess I'm a little too old (or a little too un-divorced-womanish) to really understand the appeal. They just looked heavy, expensive, complicated, and not all that rewarding to me, even when they were new.

Full disclosure - I've poked around them but never driven one.

I've driven an AWD N/A one (in the UK, don't know if they were available in the US) and I did like it. They are massively complex in the 1980s high tech sort of way which is why I didn't end up buying one.

Timing belts on those are supposed to be really bad to replace.

A friend had one, took it to a mechanic, who quoted a price without realizing what it was. When he went to pick it up, the mechanic said "NEVER bring that car back here"

I've wanted one since a high school classmate of mine (a real drop out) hit a scratch ticket for a couple hundred thousand and bought a bright red 3KGT VR-4. He lost his license soon after, got arrested for selling pot, and who knows what happened to the money. I did see the car sitting in the garage one day...I briefly "dated" his younger sister and she took me home to meet dad...

She was fun...

Does anyone know what "book rate" is on a timing belt for the NA V6 version?

Never fear, your 3000GT addict is here.

I have a VR4 (built it myself from the chassis up) and used to sport a Non-Turbo DOHC in highschool.

I really love these cars. Its so easy to fall in love with them.

Heres a few things you have to accept about them.

1) This is not a car that you can approach with a bunch of wrenches and "figure it out." You WILL need a service manual to work on it (can be downloaded from 3sx.com). Its not an overly complex car by modern standards but because of the packaging some things must be performed in very specific sequences.

2) The VR4s are crazy quick for their weight. The Non-Turbos are not. If he gets an SL, it won't be worth modifying. The only "smart" mod would be a TT conversion (which reliability may suffer if not done properly, though can be done for only a few hundred bucks)

3) It is CRAZY comfortable. Even with TEIN coilovers I have repeatedly driven 1000+ miles at a time. The stock ride is sooooo nice, especially for highway driving.

Differences in model years:

90-93 = 1st Gen. These often have cast cranks and their ECUs have issues with leaky capacitors.

94-99 = 2nd Gen. These have forged cranks and their ECUs are pretty stout. They are usually preffered, especially cause of their projector style headlights.

jrw1621 wrote: Does anyone know what "book rate" is on a timing belt for the NA V6 version?

The TT DOHC and DOHC Non-Turbo are identical motors minus the heads (TT heads flow more, but are interchangeable) Both are 6g72.

If you must do a 120k service on this car, I would pass....

A 120k service will run you about $650....and is a PAIN. If you do the labor yourself, its not so bad....but its not something the novice mechanic would really wanna tackle without some help.

http://www.ipsmotorsports.net/product_info.php?cPath=3543_3550_986_1009_3812&products_id=1940

This is not something you want to skimp on. Use OEM parts (trust me).

If its just a timing belt job....that would require what we call a 60k....

http://www.ipsmotorsports.net/product_info.php?cPath=3543_3550_986_1009_3812&products_id=1939

And one last thing....haha.

Just for the record, the SL version (DOHC Non-Turbo) can be made into a REALLY nice autocrossing car. Sure, not nationally competitive but just swaybars with nice tires turns it into a completely different car. Though, stay away from the automatics if you're looking for a sporty car. The autos just make it a pig.

L i g e r r e i n These are the exact type of post that make g rm the best message board

At that mileage, figure another $1500 to pay someone to do the timing belt service. Doing it yourself is an enormous PITA, but can be done for about $400 in parts (if you're not doing the water pump and other maint at the same time, which you probably ought to). The 5 speed trans in the NA cars aren't failure prone like the 6 speed units in the TTs so I wouldn't worry about that.

Car isn't exceptionally practical but the back seat area can be used to transport some things. Gets adequate mileage. FWD is fine for all weather. Very comfortable cars. I wouldn't buy one again, but I loved my '95 SL back in the day.

Having worked on these cars as a mechanic before, you could not pay me to own one. Mizu threw everything on the parts shelf at these. Adjustable suspention, exhaust etc. Lots of complex systems, all expensive to replace, sure to break, and a Major PITA to work on.

Everything on these cars is a pain to work on, and I mean Everything. ie try changing the front engine mount on one.....

The car is too heavy in stock form to be fast, and the twin turbos are not impressive, the stock turbos are tiny, about the size of your fist. The plumbing is overly complex too and hard to get to. Yes they can be made to go fast, but expect to spend a ton of money.

I have also seen the engine self distruct in these, in under a mile. There is a reason that most wise people avoid these like the plague, and I've just listed a few.

Chris Rummel

Wow, $650 just in parts for the major version of as belt change and $1500 to have it done!

Thanks for the input guys. Great info here.

sachilles wrote: We had on local in the club, turbo, well cared for. It was incredibly fast. It met it's demise against a tree. Car didn't survive but the driver did. Which is an all important factor. It was at a hill climb. Hit hard enough that we had to pull parts of the tranny case out of the tree, that were lodged in like spikes. Very sobering moment. He only had a minor injury, which is amazing.

lawdogg? how is he? I remember when that happened and he said he was taking a break from car stuff for awhile after that. do you know if he ever got back into any more?

I had the '92 stealth version of that car for sale above through most of college. great for that purpose. quick enough to enjoy cruising, looks great, can haul a surprising amount of stuff. as long as you keep up on the 60k services (tbelt/wpump) and oil changes, they are actually pretty dang reliable. and of course as mentioned above, seen some people walk away from some really ridiculous crashes in them. the NA FWD ones are cheaper/easier to maintain/more reliable than the turbo ones.