Order of Magnitude Challenge? Flame suit on. Thoughts?

The Nelson's can already build a $20k car they really wanted to within the rules. Some would suggest that it'd break the "don't be a dick rule" but I'd argue that I'd be the opposite of being a dick. Again going back to the idea of racing for pink slips, say that upon winning against a local person, instead of taking their car, the Nelson's offered to trade the loser's vehicle back to them in exchange for a specific allotment of parts that's less than the value of the vehicle that they just won. That's actually being quite kind and benefits the person whom just lost their vehicle. And I still believe that it potentially falls within a loophole within the rule set. I do expect that if someone were to ever take advantage of it a new rule would be written in their name to close the loophole, however I'd love to see it happen. The story alone would be amazing and I'd fully expect that it'd bring a new level of attention and exposure to the challenge as an event. 

In reply to maschinenbau :

Mile 147, she's gotten out of the car and blocked me on all social media platforms. I'm not sure that it had anything to do with the vehicle. 

In reply to maschinenbau :

How stiff/sore you are after that 200 mile drive, length of time it takes to do X maintenance event, accuracy of gauges, list of things you need to fix, most expensive repair necessary within the last 500 miles.

maschinenbau said:

 The event itself would need re-work though to keep in the spirit of cars we actually want to own. I suggest additional scored events like successful navigation of a drive-thru, pot hole impact test, complaints-per-hour of your SO on a 200 mile drive, etc...

The original Gastropod concept included a taco run- you could actually quantify this sort of stuff if you wanted using things like a decibel meter, G meter, temp probe, etc. to avoid more "judged" components outside of the already controversial concours judging.

Here's a simple idea for a class, that negates a good portion of the specialty aspect of vehicles competing in the challenge.

Add a 100+ miles driven each way to the event class. 

That pretty much means that it has to be road worthy enough to be able to make the travels and for you to be willing to tolerate the conditions needed to travel 100 miles. It's kind of like an extreme gastropod instead of going to Taco Bell you're having to drive it to high school every morning and back every afternoon and be willing to pick up a date (who may have questionable standards) on a Friday night. I think the only real way to simulate that is a hundred mile drive. 

It doesn't require a change of budget. You can still have the trophy for the furthest traveled. But it encourages either a level of civility or a level of masochism that is on a sliding scale of direct correlation that I feel fits within the spirit of the challenge. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

Here's a simple idea for a class, that negates a good portion of the specialty aspect of vehicles competing in the challenge.

 

Add a 100+ miles driven each way to the event class. 

 

That pretty much means that it has to be road worthy enough to be able to make the travels and for you to be willing to tolerate the conditions needed to travel 100 miles. It's kind of like an extreme gastropod instead of going to Taco Bell you're having to drive it to high school every morning and back every afternoon and be willing to pick up a date (who may have questionable standards) on a Friday night. I think the only real way to simulate that is a hundred mile drive. 

 

It doesn't require a change of budget. You can still have the trophy for the furthest traveled. But it encourages either a level of civility or a level of masochism that is on a sliding scale of direct correlation that I feel fits within the spirit of the challenge. 

I'm pretty sure almost everyone on this forum would gladly drive the harshest most un-streetworthy car 100 miles if it meant a win.

I hate to say it, but if you want something to not end up as a $2000 challenge competitor and only a $2000 challenge competitor, you need another ruleset.  Gastropod was close.  Think about what makes a car streetable/maintains resale and include that in the ruleset.  Treadwear, wet performance, cruising/hard throttle dB, air conditioning, full interior, intact emissions/safety items, etc.

Anyone remember the grandma test?

In reply to NOHOME :

But $20,000 is really more like $40,000 when you add in the offsets and allowed.  

RevRico said:

How fast could the Nelson's go on $20k instead of $2k? 

Six seconds? I would think sevens for sure. They're at 8.61 with Chinese turbos that were $103 each.....I know the power and dollars are exponential, but $20K is exponential after $2K.

I'll also add that I'm still driving my 2017 Challenge car and I haven't yet spent $2K.

In reply to ProDarwin :

You're right. I've driven Datsaniti (2019 winner) 100 miles through Atlanta summer heat just for a test-and-tune at a drag strip. That sucked. 

That article on the Grandma Test was hilarious

IIRC, that was essentially Jim's original plan for the Wartburg after it completed the "Trifecta of Crap" (Challenge, Lemons, BABE rally).  He was going to rebuild it without such a restrictive budget into something enjoyable on a regular basis.  Life changes got in the way, but it seemed like a good plan.  That is probably what I'd do if I ever build a Challenge car. 

ProDarwin said:

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

Here's a simple idea for a class, that negates a good portion of the specialty aspect of vehicles competing in the challenge.

 

Add a 100+ miles driven each way to the event class. 

 

That pretty much means that it has to be road worthy enough to be able to make the travels and for you to be willing to tolerate the conditions needed to travel 100 miles. It's kind of like an extreme gastropod instead of going to Taco Bell you're having to drive it to high school every morning and back every afternoon and be willing to pick up a date (who may have questionable standards) on a Friday night. I think the only real way to simulate that is a hundred mile drive. 

 

It doesn't require a change of budget. You can still have the trophy for the furthest traveled. But it encourages either a level of civility or a level of masochism that is on a sliding scale of direct correlation that I feel fits within the spirit of the challenge. 

I'm pretty sure almost everyone on this forum would gladly drive the harshest most un-streetworthy car 100 miles if it meant a win.

I hate to say it, but if you want something to not end up as a $2000 challenge competitor and only a $2000 challenge competitor, you need another ruleset.  Gastropod was close.  Think about what makes a car streetable/maintains resale and include that in the ruleset.  Treadwear, wet performance, cruising/hard throttle dB, air conditioning, full interior, intact emissions/safety items, etc.

Anyone remember the grandma test?

100 miles?  No problem.  For a cheap plastic trophy   Just about anybody would.  ( if it would hold up that long is another issue) 

    To prove  it actually streetable  you should be required to drive it a year or 12,000 miles. 

I'd just build a nicer and better-optimized version of the car I'm already building.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I agree that everybody on this forum would for an overall win. But to be eligible for a subclass I think most would just say, screw it if it was just for that. 

GRM HQ is about 95 miles or so from the track at Gainesville. I'm getting dangerous ideas.

(I already have dangerous ideas as The Firm is merely 30 minutes from the track at Gainesville so a rallycross or flying lap time element could already be added to the format if stretching it from a long weekend into a week long format. Event cost would balloon due to insurance cost, especially if adding in a flying lap time or even standing start lap time at The Firm. But a Monday-Friday event with a weekend to travel down and weekend to travel back would be pretty spectacular. Two days running at Gainesville, two days at The Firm have concourse and awards at GRM HQ and the oppo for GRM to put some of the cars up on the lift for video and article purposes.  

I'm thinking either just exhibition, or perhaps Ultimate Autocross/Street Car Challenge (UASCC?) as the third leg of the GRM Stool of Greatness?

The $2k challenge inspires some folks to put in a ridiculous amount of work all year for an annual event. It's like some kind of Burning Man for autocrossers.

A $20k cap doesn't make sense to me because although it is meaningfully less than $30k, or $40k, nobody's going to build a $19k car that's kinda what they want if they can do what they really want for $22k. When you're looking at spending $20k, the event is a distant second to the car itself and its other events.

I think if there's something missing, it's an event which is neither as bonkers and specific as the $2k challenge, nor as Serious Business as the UTCC. The UASCC could have subdivisions like the UTCC does, or even different budget tiers. But I think we're really looking for a GRM-flavored party for a catchall for folks building what they want to build.

Or maybe I'll just build what I build and try to make it to Monterey sometime...

I agree the $20K cap is somewhat arbitrary. I can imagine I'll have a good bit more than that much into my 1800ES by the time it's done, even if I do most of the work myself.  If/when I get to that point, I'm not going to pay much attention to a budget if it means I can build the car I want. 

eastsideTim said:

RevRico said:

How fast could the Nelson's go on $20k instead of $2k? 

Just for S&G, I put a 2200 lb car with 1000 flywheel horsepower into a quarter mile calculator.  It spit out 7.87 at 181 MPH.

I did about the same. I could pretty easily buy a decent chassis and build a 1000hp LS that would last for more then a few passes. 20K and all the saftey gear not so much.  

I think it is actually harder to have a 2K cap versus a 20K cap.  The amount of wrangling and deal searching is a story all in its own.  I mean I go to yard sales now and look at old appliances and bed frames as car building material now thanks to the challenge.  :-)

I drove my challenge car for a year or two before, and 2-3 years after the event. then I sold it to someone that drove it until I lost contact with him. 
why do you think a challenge car is a 3-day car exactly? And having a 20K class is, sorry, silly. Now it's just another racing class. the challenge to the challenge is to see what can be done with 20XX dollars. I've seen some seriously nice cars done for $2,000.....and much less.  

In reply to DrBoost :

I'm dailying my challenge build currently, and it's a half budget build. It's not an ideal daily, but it's working, for the most part. 

NOHOME said:

What if we had the budget to build cars that we could compete with in the challenge, and also have a great toy car for after the challenge?

I don't like the fact that after all the hours and effort it takes to build a challenge car, for the most part they get scrapped after the event unless they come back in another year with mods. Yes, I do get it that sweat equity is meant to be a replacement for $$$ and the whole goal of "Grassroots", but still, I prefer not to build something that has only a three day mission in life.

I don't think many of them get scrapped, I think most of them get sold off to be someone else's project car or are kept by the entrant and modded beyond the Challenge budget cap. Of the PLBs I've worked on:

Free Probe - Sold to a guy who wanted to race it

Lowered & repainted red Chevy pickup - don't know, we might've made that one worse

4AGZE-swapped AW11 - Sold to someone who wanted to mod it, with an EV swap IIRC?

Covered Corvette Wagon - Don't know but there was talk of selling it

Joe Dirt Camaro - Had a buyer lined up, don't know their intentions.

Nissan NX2000 - Kept by pimpm3 as a street & track car

Some others I know were kept, hopefully I'm not cherry picking:

S10 autocrosser - Kept by pimpm3 and modded further

Pontiac V6 Miata - Kept by Dusterbd13 to be a street and track car

Cheaparral - On display in the NCM last I heard? Wasn't affected by the sinkhole incident...

Sounds like the SCCAs Mod class to me. 

Former Challenge car living that EMod life.  Built for $1700 and sold for about that.   I enjoy being in the mix for FTD against $50,000 rides.  You can have a LOT of fun for pretty short money.

Hahaha, you think I have $20,000. And its disposable. I appreciate your optimism. 

In reply to John Welsh :

And no audience