In reply to Knurled. :
Yep. Pretty much. That render just reminds me of some of the old Players Challenge cars with a nice contrasting shade of pink added on top.
In reply to Knurled. :
Yep. Pretty much. That render just reminds me of some of the old Players Challenge cars with a nice contrasting shade of pink added on top.
In reply to Daylan C :
Heh, I see what you mean. I guess that's a pretty good livery to be associated with.
Perhaps some subtle logos added to the design would make it more clear what the meaning is.
The whole issue boils down to the same old issue wearing different faces. Collectivism. Whether its racism, sexism, etc, bigotry of any and all types is just collectivism. People trying to group others into categories like "LBGT" or "straight", "male" or "female", "old" or "young", "black" or "white". It comes from a desire to try to make others conform to stereotypical views. What most refuse to accept is that collectivism is damaging to everyone....whether you associate others with a particular group or you associate yourself with a given group...all you are doing is separating people...trying to fit others into a preconceived stereotypical box you have in your head. The only solution is to realize that there are no groups...at all, there are only individuals and no one fits in a given box, and forcing someone into that box(even inside your head) is only dehumanizing them. There is no "us" and "them", there are only people...and the stupid identity politics so prevalent today is only making bigots out of everyone. As Aerosmith put it "If you can tell a wise man by the color of his skin, then mister you are a better man than I". The point being as it always has been: Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Wicked93gs said:The whole issue boils down to the same old issue wearing different faces. Collectivism. Whether its racism, sexism, etc, bigotry of any and all types is just collectivism. People trying to group others into categories like "LBGT" or "straight", "male" or "female", "old" or "young", "black" or "white". It comes from a desire to try to make others conform to stereotypical views. What most refuse to accept is that collectivism is damaging to everyone....whether you associate others with a particular group or you associate yourself with a given group...all you are doing is separating people...trying to fit others into a preconceived stereotypical box you have in your head. The only solution is to realize that there are no groups...at all, there are only individuals and no one fits in a given box, and forcing someone into that box(even inside your head) is only dehumanizing them. There is no "us" and "them", there are only people...and the stupid identity politics so prevalent today is only making bigots out of everyone. As Aerosmith put it "If you can tell a wise man by the color of his skin, then mister you are a better man than I". The point being as it always has been: Treat others as you would like to be treated.
So - yes, with caveats. I'll challenge you a little bit and we'll use race (not racing) as an example.
People who say "I don't see color" - that's a great phrase on the surface, right? The people who say things like that are well-meaning and generally mean "I see us all as equals and we don't need labels because yay we're all the same!"
That's a really great idealistic thought. The reality is that we need folks to see color, and gender, and sexuality, and religion, and nationality, and so on - because while the most zen course of action is to not put labels to any person, everyone's got a different battle they're fighting. Women fight different battles than black people, who fight different battles than gays who fight different battles than Jewish people, who fight different battles than trans women.
And before someone goes "oh, well what about men?!" - Go to a public park (not now, after this coronavirus blows over), bring your young child and let them play, and just sit and watch them like any loving parent would. I've heard enough stories to know how that can go.
Point being, we all need to treat others as we want to be treated, YES. Absolutely. And a large part of that is deliberately sitting down with people/friends/colleagues who have different identities than you do, to understand how they are seeing the same common struggles through their own unique lens.
Congrats on the feature! I firmly believe that it doesn't matter if you're male/female/non-binary/cis/trans/gay/lesbian/bi/pan/queer/genderfluid/etc., cars unite people. You're doing great work providing a space in the automotive community free of homophobic idiots pretending the world is a Modern Warfare 2 lobby chat. Oh, and if anyone here didn't watch Out Motorsports's $1500 off-road challenge they're totally missing out. Some of the best content I've seen on Youtube in a while.
G_Body_Man said:Congrats on the feature! I firmly believe that it doesn't matter if you're male/female/non-binary/cis/trans/gay/lesbian/bi/pan/queer/genderfluid/etc., cars unite people. You're doing great work providing a space in the automotive community free of homophobic idiots pretending the world is a Modern Warfare 2 lobby chat. Oh, and if anyone here didn't watch Out Motorsports's $1500 off-road challenge they're totally missing out. Some of the best content I've seen on Youtube in a while.
Thank you!! That was such a fun trip. We're doing something again this August, still involving dirt but more competitive and more... old-people-ish, less crossover.
G_Body_Man said:Oh, and if anyone here didn't watch Out Motorsports's $1500 off-road challenge they're totally missing out. Some of the best content I've seen on Youtube in a while.
Totally agreed! I was in love with that Town and Country.
I tried to stay away but I couldn't help but admire the polite back-and-forth going on here.
At work, there is a Supervisor who recently made a joke about his tiny office being a former closet (you can imagine the joke). The person who made the (actually hilarious) joke is Mark. He is not Mark the Gay Supervisor.
The biggest disservice to mankind in general (obviously excluding specific abominations like the Holocaust, slavery etc.) is the overuse of needless modifiers. Black man, lesbian woman, Latino Congressman, Asian motocross rider etc. Don’t get me started on “Firsts”: First Black Female Bullfighter.”, “First Croatian-born Astronaut to orbit the Earth.”
This isn’t just a matter of a person using modifiers toward other people but the use of modifiers to identity oneself.
Drop the senseless modifiers and change a nation. Failure to do so perpetuates the imaginary walls between us that Identity Politics has cruelly erected.
I apologize if this offends anyone but I think calling something "Out Motorsports" or "Out" anything automatically excludes people and puts up a wall that serves no one and perpetuates the very thing we're trying to eradicate.
By the way, that Merkur is AMAZING.
ebonyandivory said:I tried to stay away but I couldn't help but admire the polite back-and-forth going on here.
At work, there is a Supervisor who recently made a joke about his tiny office being a former closet (you can imagine the joke). The person who made the (actually hilarious) joke is Mark. He is not Mark the Gay Supervisor.
The biggest disservice to mankind in general (obviously excluding specific abominations like the Holocaust, slavery etc.) is the overuse of needless modifiers. Black man, lesbian woman, Latino Congressman, Asian motocross rider etc. Don’t get me started on “Firsts”: First Black Female Bullfighter.”, “First Croatian-born Astronaut to orbit the Earth.”
This isn’t just a matter of a person using modifiers toward other people but the use of modifiers to identity oneself.
Drop the senseless modifiers and change a nation. Failure to do so perpetuates the imaginary walls between us that Identity Politics has cruelly erected.
I apologize if this offends anyone but I think calling something "Out Motorsports" or "Out" anything automatically excludes people and puts up a wall that serves no one and perpetuates the very thing we're trying to eradicate.
By the way, that Merkur is AMAZING.
You're very much enttiled to your opinion!
Much like your supervisor is Mark, I'm just Jake the racecar driver. BUT... there is absolutely a need to have groups like these. I'm sorry the discourse here doesn't convince you of such. See my reply a few comments up about the need to unify while recognizing various identities. We can strive for equality while also understanding our own differences. Those differences don't simply go away because someone thinks labels are silly.
Surely you understand the idea of "Out Motorsports" tying directly to coming out and thus being your authentic self. To perceive the branding as exclusionary is, frankly, a bit obtuse. Would you say the same about a group labeled "Out and Proud" or "Out at Work" or similar? I suppose you'd say those groups simply don't need to exist. Same for other affinity groups in the workplace.
Friendly reminder, since you're going on about being inclusive and breaking down walls and so on - one of the two major political parties doesn't think I'm deserving of equal rights. Basic stuff, like employment and housing equality. If you're gonna preach this sort of kumbiyah mindset, I'd sure hope you're working to help shift the views of the very party you earlier, proudly, claimed to align with.
(Before anyone gets too "why can't this just be about cars, why is everything political" ... everything is political, doubly so if you're part of a marginalized group)
In reply to Brake_L8 :
If you'll take a minute and show me the specific policies that explicitly prevent LGBTQ individuals from gaining employment and housing I will certainly stand beside you in protest against those policies. And please be specific or we're just spinning our wheels andI haven't the time nor the desire to fight ghosts.
I'm not sure if parts of your reply were an attempt at "gotcha" shaming but in case it was, you're barking up the wrong tree. And you ironically may be putting me in a box with that sort of assumption.
And if you claim to just be "Jake the racecar driver" why was the entire article about sexual preference and lifestyle? If what you just claimed were true, I wouldn't have a clue that you were gay.
Its just that the thread title "Out Motorsports Creates a Space for LGBT+ Racing Enthusiats" and your comment "I'm just Jake the race car driver" don't agree with each other.
In reply to Brake_L8 :
You said it better than I ever could. Being proud of one's identity isn't about being divisive, it's about showing others that we're real human beings, deserving of fair treatment. (Certain states are trying as we speak to pass laws discriminating against LGBT+ people, so it's an ongoing fight, even though some people think "oh you already got marriage rights so it's all good now")
In reply to slowbird :
Government has NO PLACE in marriage. At all. How can I have conservative leanings and still believe that? I urge everyone to stop labeling ALL people. And that includes conservatives.
(this is NOT directed at you personally)
In reply to slowbird :
I'm sorry, I was unable to find a policy created by the current administration that prevented the employement or the purchase of housing by members of the LGBTQ community.
If you have a few minutes, please post a link to the specific policy created by the current administration that addresses this topic.
And in the meantime, let me state that if we know of a business owner who employs clearly bigoted practices, lets all never do business with him or her so that they may go out of business.
A very dear friend of mine is openly trans. She's also into cars. When I shared the link to the Out Motorsports page with her, the reply said it all: Wow, a place where I am totally welcomed as I am.
That's really all it's about: Giving a traditionally marginalized group a place where they can free welcome while enjoying a common love. Is it any different than my wife's all-women cycling club?
And if it's not for you, you're totally free to move along.
In reply to ebonyandivory :
I didn't mean to make this just about marriage, it was just an example. Anyway, my point was that our rights are being fought for continuously, because some people out there want to repeal them even after we've gotten laws passed to preserve them.
ebonyandivory said:In reply to slowbird :
I'm sorry, I was unable to find a policy created by the current administration that prevented the employement or the purchase of housing by members of the LGBTQ community.
If you have a few minutes, please post a link to the specific policy created by the current administration that addresses this topic.
And in the meantime, let me state that if we know of a business owner who employs clearly bigoted practices, lets all never do business with him or her so that they may go out of business.
Trump Administration Asks Supreme Court To Legalize Firing Transgender Workers
Also, I'm going to press pause on this one for a while. I believe that everyone has stated their case.
Breathe in, breathe out.
Thanks, everyone.
You know what? People who happen to be gay are A-OK. Your personal preferences/bedroom lifestyle/etc dont matter to me.
I mean, yeah, I have met some who put on that Ru Paul or whatever persona more than a bit thick and I found them annoying, which made me shy away. That said, I do the same with brotards, vapers, rednecks...
There was an episode of Hotel Impossible that has kind of stuck with me. It actually portrayed the reverse situation, where a LGBT++ (hard to keep up with proper terms) resort was welcome to hetero, but had omitted it from all of its advertising whatsoever, which drove them away. Having a visible presence out there is advantageous to our hobby/sport because otherwise assumptions of unwelcome are easily made. Just by existing, "hey, if they are part of that scene and not driven off, I am welcome too"
If there's anything that can be done to help, let it be known. (not that anyone is likely to be racing for the next while...)
In reply to Apexcarver :
Racing is ok just no passing in order to keep the 6 foot minimum separation.
Stampie said:In reply to Apexcarver :
Racing is ok just no passing in order to keep the 6 foot minimum separation.
Well, I guess we could just say we are practicing our emergency social distancing mechanisms...
Time trials it is, then! Wait, does that mean hillclimbs are okay?
In reply to slowbird :
Only if you are playing "Run To The Hills" on the stereo during your run.
In reply to Knurled. :
How about "Over The Mountain"?
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