Pads for my RX7 street car, oh and there is a v8 in it now

I drive my 302 swapped RX7 FC on the street back and forth to work 99% of the time and never really tax the brakes. I have not been happy with them but never needed to upgrade. That changed when some A... .... ...... ...... pulled out in front of when when I was doing 50mph. I ended up in the other lane with my foot deep in the brakes, full force, and they never locked up... So its time to get this fixed, my brakes have felt squishy and week for to long and seem to be a safety issue as well.

So here is the starting point-

New pads and rotors 8k miles ago (knock off OEM's from the previous owner)

TurboII 5 lug brakes

Stainless lines

Master cylinder replaced by PO say 10-12k miles ago, still using stock booster

V8 and 5 speed swap 2700lbs 55-45 front to rear so the swap moved a bit more weight up front.

So brakes are ok daily driving but it takes a bit more force then id like to stop. I took the car out and tried to work the brakes to get them hot and see what was going on. They felt a bit better when hot but not amazing. It feels like the rear brakes lock up but I can't hear the tires sliding. When I press really hard it feels like it lets up like the rears are locking. Need to get a buddy to follow me and watch.

So I was thinking about going with Hawk HPS or HP plus pads in the front and have the rotors turned at the same time but I know a lot of you guys have a lot more experience with with kinda stuff. Im looking for a good pad that works very well when cold but not crazy fade when they get hot incase I drive really hard. Say going down a mountain road. But id also like to keep the dust down iv got basket weave rep wheels on the car and they are a pain to clean.

What do you guys think about the these pads and is there a better option? I know the calipers and rotors should be more then I will ever need so in my mind its down to the pads.

Thanks!

I run the HP+ on my Subaru Legacy Daily Driver/Rallycross car and the Hawk Street/Race on my BMW E28 weekend/track car (the Subaru has also seen track time). Either of those pads should firm up your pedal, they both stop okay the first time in the morning but only get better with heat. Squealing and dust are both going to be issues (the street/race might be better but it may be just a case of I actually wash that car!). For the squealing I wouldn't recommend the grease the pads come with from Hawk for the back of the pads, it always turned into smoke after my first lapping session, Permatex Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant has held up well for me and kept things quieter.

Adam

The 4 pot Turbo II front calipers are pretty much identical to the brakes on the 93-95 cars. I run Porterfield R4S on the street and can lock them up no problem. No experience with the HP+/HPS pads though. Is your master cyl sized properly for those calipers (assuming they were an upgrade by the PO)? A common FD thing is to swap in a 929 MC due to its larger bore and longer stroke.

I did some digging on master cylinders a while back. The NA cars have the same master cylinder as the turbo cars from what iv read on forums and seen looking through parts stores. The booster is better on the turbo cars but from what iv read its not a big upgrade so not worth the time. I did read into the 929MC but didn't want to get into all of that yet. 

I would normally come into a thread like this and berate somebody for not having their braking system up to par, but it sounds like you’ve already gotten the lesson. 

How old are the tires?  These are what actually stops the car, the brakes stop the wheels.  So old tires or tires that need to be warm to stick can be an issue.

What are your alignment settings?  Too much toe change under dive or too much static camber can cause braking issues due to the changing nature of the tire's contact patch.

How old is the fluid?  Brakes that don't feel firm or seem to go soft after being driven hard can often be resolved by a simple brake fluid change with no other changes.  If changing the fluid doesn't help (even just pushing fresh fluid to the calipers without a full change), then I'd look at pad compounds assuming the above issues weren't suspect as well.

Brake fluid is about 14 months old. Never really gotten hot.

Tires are 1 year old and they are a summer tire so they have good grip. It was about 65° when dude man tried to kill me.

Rear has a good amount of camber due to the car being lower. Understandable for them to lock up first but I still should be able to lock the fronts up. I don't have ABS in the car.

The toe in/out will more then likely change due to being lower, but again I would see that having an ill effect on grip not improve it. 

Do pads effect pedal feel? Make the pedal feel more firm or soft?

In reply to Skervey :

Brake fluid doesn't have to get hot to go bad and its a relatively simple thing to check and try before dumping money into replacing or upgrading parts.

Pads can have a direct impact on pedal feel, especially if they are not bedded in properly and/or they are allowed to develop a glaze on the surface.  Calipers that are sticking or not sliding properly can also cause issues.

I would put the front in the air, take the wheels off and visually inspect the braking system, have someone work the pedal while you watch to ensure the calipers are moving evenly, etc.  You can bleed the fluid from the calipers while you're there and see if that helps along with pulling the brake pads to see what condition the rotors and pads are in.  If the pads or rotors appear glazed or excessively worn, then you could replace them or even break up the surfaces with a sander or scotchbrite pad and bed the brakes in again.

Well part of my issue is my apartment, I can't work on my car there. Well not while the office is open and now with time change its dark once they leave. So pads and rotors are something I would be ok with taking the car to a shop to have done. So bleeding the brakes is kinda out for now. I did bleed and flush the system about 3 times and everything its felt the same. Iv bleed them pushing up from the caliper and down from the MS. The pedal feels soft but does not bottom out, I can put all my weight on it. Feels like im going to bust a whole in the firewall and break the seat back!

I don't think the pads were bedded in when the PO installed them. I did the bedding in process the other morning to get them hot and see if it made them better/worse with no real change.

The brake system was gone through about 14 months ago or 6k miles. New SS brake lines and new fluid. Checked the pads and rotors at the same time and calipers were free and moving good. Brakes felt the same before and after no real change in pedal feel from the SS lines. (I was hopping the new lines would help)

The rotors do look to be a bit shinny, part of the reason to get new pads the same time I have the rotors turned.

These cars are super sensitive to brake bleeding.

The rear calipers have 2 blenders each. Gotta use them both.

You should be able to lock up all 4 wheels with stock pads and stock brakes.

We have run hp+ in the front and hps in the rear.  Works well.

I did some reading on the two bleeders and the little info I found was that the bleeders on top are the only ones you need to bleed. The other was for installing new calipers? I would think that top one would be the only place air needs to leave from.

Issue resolved,

Been a while but I did pick up a lightly used set of hawk HP+ pads for the front of the RX7. Man what a improvement! Pedal feel is much better and much stiffer, as well as braking power. It feels like a miata now! The pads do dust... A lot... But I think its worth it, they also squeak at slow speeds but not crazy loud just enough to remind me they are there. I used a high temp grease when installing them as well.

The pads seem to brake about the same as the old ones when they are cold, plenty good for a DD. But when I hit on them hard and they start building up heat oh boy they lock down hard!! So much better then before! Its improved my confidence with the car so much! It is a bit funny to brake then feel them heat up and start to brake much harder, kinda feels like a turbo car building boost but in reverse. Just need to keep an eye on my pad/rotor wear now and im going to have to learn how to clean wheels much better!

Thanks for all the input hope this helps more people who might read this!

Glad you got it working, but for a street-only or near-street-only car I would've recommended EBC Redstuff so you wouldn't have to suffer with dust or noise.

HPS are a good street pad (that's what I have on my FD).  HP+ are loud and very dusty, they're more of an intro track pad.

I wouldn't have picked these pads to buy new but I pick up a set for the front for $20 so I figured I could deal with any issues for that price. Also not knowing for sure that the pads were the issue I didn't want to throw a ton of money at something that may not fix the issue.

The dust is no fun and they really are not at all loud just a little noise in parking lots. But I love the performance and I don't know if I could down grade now. I am looking forward to putting them through the paces and seeing just how good they are.

Make sure there's a check valve in the booster's vac hose...

I had that same issue with some chinesium pads, put proper pads on and it stopped like a normal car should.

I found the noise from HP+ pads wasn't too bad at first, but not long after installation became pretty bad.  I used this Anti-squeal spray and it helped a fair bit.  https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-brakes/permatex-disc-brake-quiet/