Paint dilemma

Found the perfect color for the challenge car im doing with dad.

Duplicolor sublime green pearl. Love it.

Unfortunately, reading up on this stuff im coming up with the results that its probably less durable and glossy than rustoleum. As well as more expensive. 

I'm wondering a couple of things:

Anyone here ever used it? Its in their parts store ready to spray paint shop line.

Is it possible to get the color matched in a urethane? The duplicolor is laquer based system, which i have no experience with.  

Coul i use a different clear over the laquer base? 

Its a challenge car, yes. But i still wand a durable and decent looking job.

Most of the Duplicolor shades are "good enough" matches to OEM colors. 

With some digging you should be able to find what it's copying and have it ordered. 

You can spray anything over lacquer. Lacquer will eat enamel, but I don't know what it does to urethanes. 

LOL, it's apparently a Mopar color. 

Quick Google search shows it's on 2015 Challeners. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Lacquer paint can be extremely durable.  

I painted my MGTD  with Lacquer in 1974 outside. I won a few awards but today that car looks really presentable.  Not flawless but I can go to a club event and not be embarrassed. 

That’s after 44 years and about 50 races with over 30,000 miles. 

If you want a good job paint a good job.  Rattle cans won’t do it.  Plan on at least a gallon and more if it’s a big car. 

Metal prep must be done correctly, primer done properly with everything block sanded.  Wipe off any sanding dust with a tac rag and then wipe everything down with a slightly damp cloth that has been dampened by lacquer thinner ( not water) 

Mix  your first coat  normally but your second coat should be sprayed with twice as much Lacquer thinner.  Your third coat again you double the Lacquer thinner 

Now color sand with 600 wet or dry. 

 Again double the Lacquer thinner to pigment so now the “paint”  looks more like a tint than paint. When you spray paint that thin it really wants to run but you are adding depth and I believe durability. 

At this point you are really cleaning your paint gun but I go ahead and give it one final coat. 

Let dry over night  start block sanding with 600 wet or dry. ( use wet)  go step by step to the finest grit you can find ( at least 1000). 

Then start with a medium rubbing compound and work to the finest compound available.  

I have a favorite wax that puts a durable shine on everything.  Blue coral. Very labor intensive. But worth it decades later

thr best thing about Lacquer is the ease you can spot touch up paint.  

By the way urethane are a plastic base and thus softer than Lacquer in fact so is enamel ( softer than Lacquer)   Yes Lacquer can chip and flake. If painted over a poor surface. It can also crack, again prep is everything. 

Do not make the common mistake of putting on a dozen thick coats.  

So we could put a good clear iver the laquer base? Awesome!

This color has been out sinch 2012 that i k ow of, so....

Frenchy: its pre thinned, ready to shoot according to the can. No thinning or mixing, just stir and spray. But i hear what you are saying otherwise.  

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Clear over Lacquer? Why?  Properly painted Lacquer has a real depth all by itself. A richness you will never get with clear.  On the other hand, you may only be able to get base coat clear coat in that color.  

As to prethinned?  With how much thinner, what temp thinner?  Even if everything is perfect  you do realize. You are buying 1/2 of the pigment you’d get unmixed, don’t you?  But paying pigment prices for Lacquer thinner.   I would just go buy a gallon of paint for a 2015 Dodge Challenger in that color and pick up the proper thinner at the same time.  Check the internet for a good deal before shopping locally.  I buy almost all of my paint that way now.  I used to shop a local automotive paint store but even with a tax license prices got silly. I checked with a couple of body shop buddies and they got a much bigger discount due to their volume.  

That’s like people who buy premixed antifreeze. They are paying $18  gallon for 1/2 gallon of water?   

It is generally inadvisable to wet sand metallic and pearl paints. 

Metallics and pearls are regular paint that literally have metallic and or pearlescent particles suspended in the paint. 

Trying to color sand these paints usually destroys the visual continuity as you start bringing these modifiers to the surface of the paint and literally change the depth of the modifiers in the paint relative to other areas on the car. 

Not to mention, most of the time you'll never get a deep gloss back after the pearl particles (which have no glossy quality to them) are brought to the surface. (Same applies to metallics.) 

So if you need to color sand, you need to put down some clear coat so you can sand that, without affecting the depth of the modifiers relative to the color base. 

Check paintforcars.com for a single stage cheap paint that works.  Their vibrant lime sounds like the ticket 

i used duplicolor in my old p71.  I am a decently experienced painter and learned from one.  I did everything by their instructions and it was crap.  It scratched like nobody’s business, the color was crap compared to the chips and it was black.  It faded and baked in the sun within 6 months.  I would never recommend their stuff to anyone.  It cost around $200 to do their base/clear.  The white on the datsun was around $49 for a gallon and is wearing like iron even with multiple stickers removals scraping with plastic scrapers.  

frenchyd said:

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

As to prethinned?  With how much thinner, what temp thinner?  Even if everything is perfect  you do realize. You are buying 1/2 of the pigment you’d get unmixed, don’t you?  But paying pigment prices for Lacquer thinner.   I would just go buy a gallon of paint for a 2015 Dodge Challenger in that color and pick up the proper thinner at the same time.  Check the internet for a good deal before shopping locally.  I buy almost all of my paint that way now.  I used to shop a local automotive paint store but even with a tax license prices got silly. I checked with a couple of body shop buddies and they got a much bigger discount due to their volume.  

That’s like people who buy premixed antifreeze. They are paying $18  gallon for 1/2 gallon of water?   

Actually, in this case, it's nothing of the sort. This is essentially just a bulk version the same paint that comes in Duplicolor spray cans. 

Slightly better quality than using household spray paint, but being able to apply it with a proper paint gun will give you a vastly improved finish quality. 

It's really an apples and oranges compared to a commercial automotive finish designed to be used with a proper hardener/activator. 

It's the hardener that makes the real difference, and it won't do it's job properly (or at least to it's full potential) unless it's used with a compatible paint. And ready to spray paint just isn't going to respond to hardener like a commercial finish. 

Although the Duplicolor paint *is* a lot safer to spray from a health/not-blow-up-my-house standpoint. Hence it's OTC availability. 

In reply to Crackers :

Lacquer doesn’t use a hardener.  Because of that it’s safer to use.  

Before air compressors became a thing cars were brush painted with Lacquer, sanded smooth, then rubbed out and finally polished.  

Like I said, apples and oranges. 

[Edit: Just wanted to clarify, this statement was directed specifically at the fact lacquer doesn't use hardener. I don't agree with the idea that "no hardener is safer". Even if it's technically true, (doubtful) it doesn't mean the necessary safety precautions are any different. Automotive paint is toxic, period.]

Also, while there are lacquer paints that don't use hardener, the vast majority of commercial automotive paints used in the last few decades have been formulated for use with a hardener. 

Lacquer paint also *requires* maintenance. If you don't keep it waxed it will oxidize and fail within a few years. 

True, an acrylic urethane will eventually do the same, but over a drastically different timeframe. Like years vs decades. 

In reply to Patrick :

berkeley me, that's cheap! I just bought a couple hundred dollars worth of paint from TCP Global. 

I'm gonna go cry in my Cheerios...

Crackers said:

It is generally inadvisable to wet sand metallic and pearl paints. 

Metallics and pearls are regular paint that literally have metallic and or pearlescent particles suspended in the paint. 

Trying to color sand these paints usually destroys the visual continuity as you start bringing these modifiers to the surface of the paint and literally change the depth of the modifiers in the paint relative to other areas on the car. 

Not to mention, most of the time you'll never get a deep gloss back after the pearl particles (which have no glossy quality to them) are brought to the surface. (Same applies to metallics.) 

So if you need to color sand, you need to put down some clear coat so you can sand that, without affecting the depth of the modifiers relative to the color base. 

You are absolutely correct in that you do not sand over pearl or metallics or metalflake.   But then racers don’t use those because you can’t spot repair those.  

Racers know solid colors can be spot repaired.  It’s often not car on car damage that hurts a paint job but garage rash or trailer rash. Rushing to meet deadlines and stuff happens. Things fall, tools get dropped, wind catches body panels.  

Crackers said:

Like I said, apples and oranges. 

[Edit: Just wanted to clarify, this statement was directed specifically at the fact lacquer doesn't use hardener. I don't agree with the idea that "no hardener is safer". Even if it's technically true, (doubtful) it doesn't mean the necessary safety precautions are any different. Automotive paint is toxic, period.]

Also, while there are lacquer paints that don't use hardener, the vast majority of commercial automotive paints used in the last few decades have been formulated for use with a hardener. 

Lacquer paint also *requires* maintenance. If you don't keep it waxed it will oxidize and fail within a few years. 

True, an acrylic urethane will eventually do the same, but over a drastically different timeframe. Like years vs decades. 

 

With one exception I can agree with all you said.  

Would you then please explain my MGTD?  44 years ago I learned how to paint on it.  With Ditzler Lacquer.  

Last time it was waxed was a quick turtlewax job at Elkhart Lake. In 1999 

if I blow the dust off it still looks pretty good but a decent wash job and it would look even better.  To really have it looking nice I’d give it a Blue Coral wax job.  

But failure?  No way!!! 

Here’s where I really wish I could send pictures as proof. 

I suppose the question is, where was your MGTD stored?  I don't think that, living in Minnesota,  your car was sitting outside. 

Inside storage would explain the longevity, since exposure to UV would be minimal. 

Just a thought

Is the car kept garaged? 

In reply to CJ :

Or covered with a good car cover but yes it’s in a garage.  Well sorta, I mean I I did tear the old house down and built new. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Sounds like there is a story there

Crackers said:

Is the car kept garaged? 

Same as any collector car.  But it’s outside when I drive it or race it or even go to car shows with it. 

The paint job is 44 years old too.  

That's like me saying I've only had to change the oil in my truck once this year. 

Technically it's true, but I've also only driven it 500 miles. That doesn't mean I'm going to go telling people you only need to change your oil once a year. 

Care and use must always be considered. 

It's also likely you've never allowed any significant oxidation to occur. You'll note above I said "oxidize and fail". Oxidation is what causes most age related paint failures. 

In reply to Crackers :

Car cover?  If too expensive use one of those cheap tarps and an old Cotten sheet to prevent wear.  Hold it on with twine or magnets Or bungee cords.  

That’s what I did when I got out of the Navy in San Diego and drove to Minnesota.  It worked well when I lived in an apartment. 

I see you've missed the point. I'm done. 

In reply to Crackers :

So what you didn’t say was if you paint a car don’t   Fail to take are of it or leave it outside or uncovered or the paint will oxidize and fail in less time than a 2 part paint will.    MAYBE

Since this is grass roots, I can accept that some people might paint a car  that has to be left outside.  However  failing to take care of it or even covering it after doing all that work?  

That is too much a stretch.  

PS  if Lacquer does oxidize a little work with rubbing compound will bring back the shine. It’s not like a lot of the paints that once they oxidize they are finished. 

You can save Lacquer right up to the point all the paint is gone.  I’ve seen Old Ford Model T’s where what is left of the original paint still will shine  nearly a century later.  

Absolutely nothing wrong with lacquer paint.  It clearly does not have the film strength of more modern finishes, but there are some advantages also (as were mentioned).

My grandfather drove a series of Model Ts in the 20's and 30's and the story he told was that they were originally painted with black lacquer and camel hair brushes at the factory (seems suspect to me,  since it would be a very slow way to paint a bunch of cars).  No idea if that is true, but I do know that grandad said he repaired paint damage that way - several coats of lacquer with a camel hair brush, finish sand, and polish.  This all came up when I was painting my first cars with synthetic enamel and he told me I didn't need a spray outfit.

Don't think anyone would try that with urethane.

For my race car I chose two colors of duct tape that I liked. Then I had the paint shop match Nason Ful-thane single stage (clear in it) to those. Looks great, repairs match perfectly, easy to sand , redo, and long lasting. Jcamper