Paint rant

I have a TR8 completely stripped down, sanded, all the lights, glass, door handles, etc, removed. Car is ready to squirt. Literally tape, wipe down and squirt. This summer was very busy with work, so I never got a chance to finish the car. Now its slowing down, but its too cold to paint in the driveway. I loaded up the car on a trailer and swung by a couple of local body shops to get an idea of what they would charge to spray it. I made it quite clear what I expected and they saw the car. All I wanted was 4 hours of their time to spray it. I was even going to tape it for them. First guy said $2500, second guy wanted 6K. I got in an argument with the second guy. He had a 2005 Mazda 6 in the shop. Rear bumper was gone, trunk lid was croaked, rear window was missing, fenders needed repairs, dents in all four doors were circled. He was going to do all that including disassembly, new parts paint half a car, and reassemble for $3200 worth of insurance money, on a car that might be worth 6K when its done. I don't get it. He tried to justify my price by saying his paint was very expensive. How much can 2 quarts of color and a quart of clear cost? Looks like I'll be painting this one myself in the spring.

Paint shops usually don't like to paint cars with prep of unknown provenance because it can cause all sorts of issues. So I'm guessing that they're quoting you enough time to re-prep the car if need be. And the second guy quoted you a "go away" price...

my body shop guy won't even paint my car … unless I let him do the body work … dammit .. it's a "racecar" slightly wavy body panels are to be expected …

he says that people might find out that he painted it … doesn't want his name associated with the result

wbjones wrote: he says that people might find out that he painted it … doesn't want his name associated with the result

This is totally understandable IMO. I would tell you the same thing if I ran a body shop.

Maybe, but the car is painted. All the body work was done and then I painted the car last spring. Color came out great and then the clear that the paint shop gave me was only for panel repair. By the time I went to spray the second coat of clear, the first coat dried and I made a mess of it. Tried wet sanding the clear, but I busted thru and damaged the metallic top mist coat on the base coat in a few spots. After that I decided to just I wet sanded the whole car to a nice flat 400 finish and spray it again. Trust me, its ready to spray. I also made it clear that if there was a prep issue, I would own it. Just wanted it sprayed. Oh well, maybe we will get lucky again and have another 60 degree day in December like today was.

I have gone though the same thing. There are people who will spray the car, but it is getting harder and harder to find them.

The truth of the matter is that us classic car guys are more trouble than we are worth to the industry. Think of the average collision job, if the owner keeps the car 5 more years it would be the norm. If it starts to look scruffy from daily use, nobody is really going to focus on the bodywork done by the shop. Us old car guys on the other hand, want to keep these cars forever. We expect that if we take care of them, the paint better last forever also. Way too much liability time for any sane businessman. We are also a small circle who talk a lot amongst ourselves.God help the painter if there should be an issue.

I'm afraid that was a PFO price. Its really tough around here to find anybody other than Maaco that will paint anything other than insurance stuff, especially owner prepped stuff.

I have a shop that will paint it for their labor only if I provide materials. I use glasurit, which is $$$ at around 150 per quart but man does it look good. I used maaco once on a cheap car and it turned out about how you'd expect.... Even will me doing all the prep the orange peel was horrible. They had some cars that looked decent, but mine wasn't one of them.

I guess my advise would be to keep checking shops and offer to supply materials. I wouldn't expect any kind of warranty on the work though.

JamesMcD wrote:

wbjones wrote: he says that people might find out that he painted it … doesn't want his name associated with the result

This is totally understandable IMO. I would tell you the same thing if I ran a body shop.

I offered two options … reminding him that it's a racecar … they get beat up …

1) I'd tell folk that I did it at home (very few that race with me would ever suspect differently
&
2) take pride in it … remind folk that he can make even my racecar look good

wouldn't bite … did tell me that he would take me on as an "apprentice" (the " " are because I'd be paying him, as opposed to him paying me) and walk me through the process and that I could use his paint booth … I might do this

this is an old timer … been repairing cars for better than 60 yrs

This is nothing new. It's either Maaco or no-go. Painting entire cars is a PITA and a warranty nightmare. The sad fact is most shops don't need your overall paint job; they have more than enough collision work to keep them busy. They make money on production.

I work for a production shop now and that kind of job is just a clog in the system. We also use paint that isn't inexpensive. If you're bringing in paint now it's something the painter may not normally use and will be potentially incompatible with other products.

There are still shops around that will do it but you have to search to find them. If you're not willing to spend $2500 getting a car painted you're going to have a tough time though. Less than that probably means you'll be spraying it yourself.

In reply to wbjones:

If he is willing to let you use the booth AND lend his expertise why haven't you accepted that offer already. I would love to get that.

Yeah, I've had no luck either. I've kind of come to terms with doing it myself, which had questionable results at first, but with a lot of wet sanding and polishing you can get pretty decent results. I'm not after show car finish though, either.

itsarebuild wrote: In reply to wbjones: If he is willing to let you use the booth AND lend his expertise why haven't you accepted that offer already. I would love to get that.

eventually ….

itsarebuild wrote: In reply to wbjones: If he is willing to let you use the booth AND lend his expertise why haven't you accepted that offer already. I would love to get that.

No kidding. I've been trying to find a booth to rent with no luck. I have good equipment and can lay down some pretty slick paint, but trying to prep my shop each time is a nightmare and takes at least a full weekend, usually more, and I still can't touch the quality (cleanliness, filtration, lighting) of a good booth.

Maybe Craigslist has someone looking for side work?

Vinyl wraps look like a good substitute now. In reply to ddavidv: How much worse is painting a whole car over a couple of body panels and color blending?

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Vinyl wraps look like a good substitute now. In reply to ddavidv: How much worse is painting a whole car over a couple of body panels and color blending?

It's A LOT more work. In my area there are also a lot of shops that don't do all over paint jobs anymore....the money for them is in the in and out insurance jobs.

It's been a looooooong time (like 26 years) since I did it, but when I was building race cars Maaco was my go-to place for that kind of work. All the cars I built came out great when using basic colors like white or red.

Not looking forward to the time that I am ready to do this to my GTI in a few years. Finding a shop you can trust and will do the job right at a cost that isn't astronomical is hard. I think I'd be willing to spend $3.5k - $4K for the right one but finding one probably won't be easy. As a general rule I would prefer to have my kneecaps broken vs. sending my car to a body shop.

I've gone to about two dozen local body shops for work (I sell tools) and the best paint jobs come out of the E36 M3 hole with a converted 1 car garage for a booth. The booth layout mimics the one in my first shop: wet floors, outside squirrel cage blowing into a 55 gallon drum of water, filters on the far wall drawing through the mixing room, etc. This place has best paint and best in show awards all over the office wall. It just proves that a booth does not equal a good paint job.

As for not having your shop set up for paint, there is no reason you can't fix that and get rid of the hassle of finding a booth or paying for a spray. A setup like I described above can be built for under $500, possibly way under. Just make some shutters or covers for your fan and filter holes when not in use. If you happen to have a large space look into some used prep station equipment-think floor to ceiling shower curtains with weighted bottoms so the fan doesn't suck them in. Lastly if you have the space I've also seen booths made from those instant garages-either outside or right in your shop. Most of them even have side vents built in.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: I've gone to about two dozen local body shops for work (I sell tools) and the best paint jobs come out of the E36 M3 hole with a converted 1 car garage for a booth. The booth layout mimics the one in my first shop: wet floors, outside squirrel cage blowing into a 55 gallon drum of water, filters on the far wall drawing through the mixing room, etc. This place has best paint and best in show awards all over the office wall. It just proves that a booth does not equal a good paint job. As for not having your shop set up for paint, there is no reason you can't fix that and get rid of the hassle of finding a booth or paying for a spray. A setup like I described above can be built for under $500, possibly way under. Just make some shutters or covers for your fan and filter holes when not in use. If you happen to have a large space look into some used prep station equipment-think floor to ceiling shower curtains with weighted bottoms so the fan doesn't suck them in. Lastly if you have the space I've also seen booths made from those instant garages-either outside or right in your shop. Most of them even have side vents built in.

In my situation....The problem is I have a lot of cars, so not having a dedicated paint booth, and cleaning out a bay every time I need to paint, is a major hassle. I have a large compressor, quality (Iwata) guns, clean/dry air (finally), and I use good materials, but taking a weekend to create a booth every time I want to lay down some paint just isn't going to work anymore. Ideally I build a dedicated booth, which is in my long term plans, but in the meantime I'd like to use a pro booth. Using a good booth doesn't guarantee a good job, but it sure does help.

My best friend in the world is the body shop manager at a local dealership. He's only been there for 37 years.

He won't paint a car for me. At any price.

He would let me use the spray booth, but I'd just berkeley things up so there's no point.

Join a car club. Find out who works at a body shop, become friends get him to ask the boss how much to rent the both for 6 hours on a sat. That's how I got my old drag car painted. I used all my supply's and my gun and labor. $200 but that was well.....long time ago.

In reply to Cotton:

Dang. How often are you painting your cars?

You guys seem to have some knowledge of painting cars, and more importantly paint cars at home.

Can anyone suggest a base/clear system that would allow for a nice slow base coat to be layed down? One where the metallic paint can be put down nice and thick and allow for enough time between base and clear to sand out any debris that might have fallen into the wet paint?

A system that provides a clear that remains wet enough that the first area painted will still be wet enough to accept a partial over-spray when the painter returns to it after doing the rest of the car. So MANY of the current clear coats set up and dry SO quickly, that when the spray "cycle" is completed, the first section painted is nearly dry to the touch.

If anyone knows of an amateur-friendly paint system, PLEASE post the name/manufacturer. Something that goes down slow and easy and welcomes touch-up during the initial painting process would be terrific !

Thanks—