Datalogged massive pressure drops on track.
Datalogged massive pressure drops on track.
I watched the video last night out of curiosity when it popped up in my feed, they aren't even on that serious of a tire .It will be interesting to see the follow up and if they make an improvement.
They should get the same data going around a cloverleaf on ramp as I'm sure it can happen there too on the street.
Since I've got one on order, I've been paying attention to this. I'm reading a lot about the oil pressure issues.
The gist that I'm seeing is that there's 2 problems:
The first issue is easy to resolve. The second seems to be trickier. Both are significantly more of an issue for motorsports use than for everyday driving.
The Tomei baffle seems to help, but reportedly still has issues with elevation changes and sustained right hand turns. I haven't seen a test of the Killer B baffle, which is a different design. However, it does seem to be a more advanced design than the Tomei baffle.
Will an accusump or dry sump be a practical requirement for reliable motorsports use?
Does nobody make a swinging oil pickup for the BRZ at this point for track use. Seems like a simple fix provided it comes with properly designed baffled pan.
As for on/off ramps, most are tight enough I wouldn't give it much concern unless it's late at night and you're just continually hitting all 4 in a row for fun.....we may or may not have used to done this on sport bikes.
1. I think the RTV thing is over blown, personally.
2. Only right handers, not left. Which is kind of interesting.
As far as an accusump/dru sump....I don't think the Cup Cars are using either, but are using 5w-40 oil from what I understand and a baffle I'm not sure is available for order.
If this can get solved, I may actually do a few more mods to mine and do the occasional HPDE. But for now, as a street car, I'm not really worried about it.
Yes, it's two different but related issues. The RTV is why some of them blow up almost immediately. The oiling issue is why a lot of them are blowing up at >10k miles even after having had the RTV cleaned out early on.
The RTV thing seems unpredictable. Some people have reported no further issues after one pickup tube cleaning, others have reported still finding pieces after multiple cleanings.
Also complicating the issue, after toyota initially taking the heat, now subaru is denying warranties...including to subaru employees.
dps214 said:Yes, it's two different but related issues. The RTV is why some of them blow up almost immediately. The oiling issue is why a lot of them are blowing up at >10k miles even after having had the RTV cleaned out early on.
The RTV thing seems unpredictable. Some people have reported no further issues after one pickup tube cleaning, others have reported still finding pieces after multiple cleanings.
Also complicating the issue, after toyota initially taking the heat, now subaru is denying warranties...including to subaru employees.
I hadn't seen that regarding Subaru and their employees. I know when I took mine in for the first oil change....it already had coilovers, cat-back exhaust, wheels, the Service Writer made it a point to ask me twice if I track the car.
Subaru engines and blowing up. What a novel idea.
I really want one of these cars. An Accusump seems like a no-brainer easy fix after making sure the pickup isn't clogged.
DirtyBird222 said:Subaru engines and blowing up. What a novel idea.
Gasp!
My E30 M3 received an oil pan baffle after a pressure drop from a 180 degree off ramp. S14s have a lateral pan on a longitudinal mounted engine, not ideal. This was not with sticky tires.
For every track event I run one extra quart of oil in the pan, this has been standard practice for my last three cars with no problems.
I like the Frisbee twins, lets get this figured out before I end up with one.
This one shows a baffle, I added a different one maybe deeper or wider.
Patientzero said:I really want one of these cars. A K24 seems like a no-brainer easy fix after making sure the pickup isn't clogged.
I got your back.
Following with much interest since I have one in the driveway and many on-ramps in my playground turn right.
Byrneon27 said:Patientzero said:I really want one of these cars. A K24 seems like a no-brainer easy fix after making sure the pickup isn't clogged.
I got your back.
Yes, because K24's don't have any oil pickup problems with a stock pan...
The comment roll on that video is interesting. Notable that one of the mechanics from the GR Cup Car team said they had recently lost three motors in a weekend, and he didn't believe it was related to silicone clogging the pickup.
The 944 world has the same issue. Sweeping left-handers (like turns one and two at the New Hampshire International race way) will cause the oil pickup to be exposed and the #2 rod bearing very quickly starts to go south.
The solution we found was a 2 quart Accusump. Once installed all #2 rod bearing issues go away. Sounds like the twins could benefit from an Accusump for track use. I still have one installed in one of my cars.
akylekoz said:For every track event I run one extra quart of oil in the pan, this has been standard practice for my last three cars with no problems.
Depends on the engine, but it's always a good idea to see how much oil overfill you can get away with for racing use. On the FA20 it's 0.25-0.5qt. It seems to start finding its way into the intake above 0.5qt overfill, with a stock pan setup at least.
I put the aftermarket pickup + baffle + oil cooler on mine before I did any track days with it, oil analysis shows everything is hunky-dory so far (also increased viscosity to 5W30)
adam525i said:Byrneon27 said:Patientzero said:I really want one of these cars. A K24 seems like a no-brainer easy fix after making sure the pickup isn't clogged.
I got your back.
Yes, because K24's don't have any oil pickup problems with a stock pan...
Not to mention, unless you can do all the fab and such, a K24 swap kit for the 1st gen is $10k. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS just for the swap parts, and then you still have to get the engine.
https://kpower.industries/products/complete-kpower-86-conversion-package
*shrug* You guys......
There's an easy button out there.
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:*shrug* You guys......
There's an easy button out there.
Yes, engines known for breaking rockers or lifters on the street, breaking pistons or dropping valves at the track (hard to tell which happens first after it happens at 6000, ever see piston rings laying on someone's control arm?), or burning a quart of oil every 200mi when everything is working normally.
z31maniac said:adam525i said:Byrneon27 said:Patientzero said:I really want one of these cars. A K24 seems like a no-brainer easy fix after making sure the pickup isn't clogged.
I got your back.
Yes, because K24's don't have any oil pickup problems with a stock pan...
Not to mention, unless you can do all the fab and such, a K24 swap kit for the 1st gen is $10k. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS just for the swap parts, and then you still have to get the engine.
https://kpower.industries/products/complete-kpower-86-conversion-package
Some of y'all really struggle with the playful trash talking... That said $10,000 to not have a piece of E36 M3 allergic to horsepower and good times Subaru engine in my car is chump change
The swap kit comes with a commonly leaky but excellently baffled pan. The major K oiling problem is the pan sloshing into the timing cover a problem significantly reduced if not eliminated when the engine is mounted in a longitudinal application.
I'm assuming horizontally opposed engines have oil drain back (back to the pan not back to the earth it's an important distinction) problems. Changes a 5/8 hose from the bottom of the valve covers to the crankcase is the solution?
The above video and common sense determines that oil starvation is the problem, where the oil is and why it's not around the pick up is the question that needs answered
I once considered one of the new twins as my daily driver and I'm glad I didn't jump on the bandwagon. Subaru engines as usual, are always incapable of doing anything but cruising on highways. On the bright side, there are rumors that the refresh of the Toyota GR86 will use a Toyota sourced engine. Here's to hoping its a GR Yaris/Corolla engine. That would be sick.
Meanwhile, I'm just casually enjoying my FA20 here after throwing only 3 digits in mods at it to keep it alive. The mods needed aren't even unusual for racing use. It's also not unusual for an engine that puts out 100hp/L from the factory to lack headroom and easy potential for more power, even when they don't have achey-breaky Subaru bottom ends to worry about.
It's not a super-awesome engine with a ton of potential, but it's also not an undefusable timebomb worth spending 5 digits to get rid of. If you can be satisfied with only modest power gains it can work fine with a few survivability mods.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Did you buy yours from another grm-er that spent a considerable amount of money defusing the time bomb or am I thinking of someone else? 
lnlds said:In reply to GameboyRMH :
Did you buy yours from another grm-er that spent a considerable amount of money defusing the time bomb or am I thinking of someone else?
Must be thinking of someone else, mine has no previous GRMer ownership history, the POs did quite a few mods but none that would help keep the engine alive:
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