Peugeot fiat Chrysler tie up

In reply to pointofdeparture :

Hmm, good point.

Also to add- the Pacifica has THE new hotness with their LG Chem batteries in the EV world- and Chrysler had to loan up to 2 Billion to Tesla recently to offset carbon in the EU.

Also of note is that PSA CEO Tavares, who is being tapped to run the whole show, is a SERIOUS car guy.

Tavares has been an amateur race car driver since the age of twenty-two.^[2] He has competed in the Rallye Monte-Carlo Historique.^[1] He also collects classic cars and owns a 1979 Peugeot 504 V6 Coupé, a 1976 Alpine A110 and a Porsche 912 from 1966.^[1] He also had a career as a rally driver until the early 1990s. ^[9]

I'd be excited to see some more Euro Junk replace the Auburn Hills Junk with the BHPH crowd around town. These days it's all Challengers and Nissans.

From an enthusiast perspective, I see no upside.

From a business perspective, I have a little trouble understanding the logic other than economies of scale. But what profit potential does the combined company have? It's probably in selling trucks and larger SUVs in the US during conducive times. Does it make sense to have a vast, mostly non-profitable company to spread around the development costs of technologies that might make it into the truck/suvs?

I remember Buffet once said something along the lines of from a business perspective the world would have been better off if the wright brothers had crashed. He was referring to the perpetual unprofitability of airlines (I think they've actually done a bit better since he said this). I kind of wonder if these companies should just disappear to allow room for other companies to make greater profits. Competition is good, but a bunch of weak competition which depresses profit is not necessarily healthy. There are still plenty of automakers out there.

So my Saturn-branded Astra, which was made by GM Europe, which is just a re-badged Vauxhall, which was sold to PSA, which is now part of FCA, means I now drive Chrysler, who doesn't even make cars anymore?

^ You clearly drive a Lancia. They kind of make cars.

You elude to another point - it's a lot of brands under one roof. Is there truly a justification for all of these brands? 12 from FCA (I'd argue 10 really), 5 from PSA.

In reply to Snrub :

Scuttlebutt is that a brand culling is looming for the alliance.

Lancia and Vauxhall are utterly redundant and likely first to go. Peugeot, Citroen, DS and Opel have enough sales volume and a large enough market spread that they are likely safe (for now). There are some very tough questions to answer about Chrysler and Dodge, though one will surely survive, the question is just which. Also some tough questions to answer about Maserati and Alfa Romeo.

Fiat barely sells anything anywhere anymore aside from commercial vehicles (they are a bit player even in Europe) but the Agnellis will surely never let the name die. Actually, that is one of the more curious things about this acquisition, is that Fiat is doing so poorly in Europe right now that the PSA acquisition is seen as a boost in that already-saturated market.

This doesn't get me any closer to owning a new Renault-Alpine A110 so pfft whatever.  Have we talked about the Jeep Curse yet?

Dodge vs. Chrysler brands is really a question of if they want to do pretend luxury with common parts, or just sell common parts without the pretense.  I imagine they stick with Chrysler.

Another way to look at this:

Fiat essentially took ownership of Chrysler for free. (yes it was more complicated than that) PSA was paid money to take Vauxhall. Fiat is and most of FCA is currently essentially worthless, outside of Jeep, Ram. It's kind of like a bunch of hobos huddling together for warmth.

I'd kill just to drive a Alpin A110, other than the lack of a manual, it sounds absolutely perfect. Renault Megane RS sounds cool too, but as suggested I'm sure we'll never see either.

Fiat dealers are somehow still around in North America. Is it possible they'll start selling other PSA products?

pointofdeparture said:

People are bizarrely thinking about this in terms of 208s roaming the streets of America, when they should really be thinking about this in terms of PSA's 2008/3008/5008 SUVs being branded as Dodges and replacing crap like the dead-on-the-vine Journey, while FCA now has immediate access to PSA's brand new EV platform. PSA gets US market penetration in exchange.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Daimler tie-up, at least.

While what you say makes sense I did briefly wonder if I should get back into towing.

Only if I can get one of these Peugeot...

Snrub said:

I'd kill just to drive a Alpin A110, other than the lack of a manual, it sounds absolutely perfect. Renault Megane RS sounds cool too, but as suggested I'm sure we'll never see either.

Renault (and the Alpine subsidiary) is tied up with Nissan and Mitsubishi, not PSA. Totally different company. Our best chance at getting any of those products here would be them branded as Infiniti models.

PSA is Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Opel and Vauxhall.

pointofdeparture said:

Renault (and the Alpine subsidiary) is tied up with Nissan and Mitsubishi, not PSA. Totally different company. Our best chance at getting any of those products here would be them branded as Infiniti models.

PSA is Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Opel and Vauxhall.

You're absolutely right, stupid moment on my part!

Snrub said:

Another way to look at this:

Fiat essentially took ownership of Chrysler for free. (yes it was more complicated than that) PSA was paid money to take Vauxhall. Fiat is and most of FCA is currently essentially worthless, outside of Jeep, Ram. It's kind of like a bunch of hobos huddling together for warmth.

This is the funniest and most accurate explanation of the merger I've ever heard 

We're pessimistic because we remember Diamler-Chrysler.

In reply to Appleseed :

"Merger of equals"

Around 2007ish, I had a supervisor who was a devout Chrysler fanatic. His father retired from Chrysler and his family owned nothing but Chrysler products. My supervisor owned a specially ordered 2006 Sebring Convertible Touring and a 2004 Jeep TJ. He was extremely melancholy about the merger. One day, after I had set my work PC's background to this:

he came in, looked at my desktop and stormed out. He didn't speak to me the rest of the day. He was not amused to say the least.

That being said, the Diamler-Chrysler merger was nothing more than corporate pillaging. Chrylser did get some decent, if old, Mercedes platforms and technology. I owned a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT that had a solid powertrain despite the Fisher-Price playhouse interior. I traded that in on a brand new 2010 Ram 1500. After the Ram, I bought a brand new 2012 Jeep Wrangler. Now the Jeep is gone and I'm eyeing a 2016 Ram 1500. Stockholm syndrome maybe?

Someone in the Peugeot North America club Facebook group posted this today and I almost ended up with coffee all over my keyboard

stanger_missle said:

In reply to Appleseed :

My supervisor owned a specially ordered 2006 Sebring Convertible Touring

 

 

 Your boss was Michael Scott?!?

That car got such a roasting on the Office I still chuckle at it fifteen years later.