About a month ago I picked up a 48 Studebaker truck from an estate. The brother of the PO said it used to have a tripower Pontiac 389. Of course that is gone. I believe the PO used the front half of the Pontiac frame. Another maybe clue is I found what is believed to be a Pontiac 4bbl intake. First question is can the year of the possible donor be narrowed down from the below pictures? What other Pontiac V8s will bolt in? Learn me what years are better and why?
Hmmm. Drum brakes on the front. Heat stove for choke on the manifold. Carb pattern and rear inlet holes look too small to be a Qjet. Can't read part number on manifold. Last year for the 389 was 1966 so that will be my guess. I understand (but could be wrong) that most Pontiac V8s will bolt in where another one came out, as long as you have the appropriate trans for the engine. At least in theory you could drop a 400 cid and trans right on to those frame mounts.
Good luck.
Looks like a 1st-gen Camaro / Firebird subframe, given 9.5" drums and rear-steer.
I was thinking a body at first, but the a body is front steer. I think most of gm's full frame cars were front steer in the 60's and newer. It might be from a mid 50's pontiac prior to the x frame. Most pontiac v8s will swap in to the same spot.
Edit: Angry could be right, it looks similar to the nova sub frame my buddy swapped under a 39 coupe.
In reply to AngryCorvair :
Well look at this. Found this picture of a 1st gen. Looks like it.
It looks like a early 60s full size Pontiac frame to me (I have a '61 Bonneville) but I can't be sure. 1961 and 1962 had metal upper control arm bushings and this one has rubber bushings, so it may be 1963 or 1964. Another thing to check is the wheel bolt pattern - full size Pontiacs were 5 x 5", A and F body cars were 5 x 4.75". There should be a casting number on that intake manifold, if you can post that I can figure out about what year it's from.
As for a replacement engine, nothing wrong with a 389 but a later model 400 would be preferable. They had better heads, and parts are easier to find these days (there is a lot of interchangeability on Pontiac engines, but 1965 and earlier 389s had a different bolt pattern for the intake to cylinder head interface). All of them will bolt up to the frame, you just need to buy some engine mounts.
1st gen F-body for sure.
Engines, what Stuart said.
Stick a 400 or a 455 in it and go.
Honestly though, unless you're absolutely married to using that subframe, change it out for something from one of the hotrod suppliers out there.
You're still dealing with a whole mess of worn-out, 50 year-old components and drum brakes.
You might just spend the same amount overhauling that front end as you would shoving some new Mustang II front end parts under it.
In reply to Trans_Maro :
I believe it was stated in another thread that C4 is the new Mustang II
A C4 Corvette front suspension is likely to be too wide to fit under a 1948 Studebaker truck without modifications. It's certainly a lot better than a MII but I'd do some measuring first.
Could also be a 68-74 Nova, but if the build was done from one donor, probably a 67-69 Firebird.
stuart in mn said:A C4 Corvette front suspension is likely to be too wide to fit under a 1948 Studebaker truck without modifications. It's certainly a lot better than a MII but I'd do some measuring first.
I've got a friend who used a Dakota front clip under a 1948 Ford pickup. Fits real nice and put a modern 318 Magnum under the hood.
Too bad it's a Dodge.
I haven't totally formulated my plans but if I change the current frame/subframe I think I'd go all extreme and build a tube chassis for it. But right now I'm leaning towards keeping it as built.
Keep it, they make everything for those
In reply to Patrick :
That was my first thought on learning it was a F body subframe.
Detroit Speed is (not) your (wallet's) friend.
Holy shiznit.
What do you roll in with that kit to get decent brakes onto the front of this thing? Are there disc kits that reuse the existing spindles that came with drums?
That intake is 1966ish-prior. Back then, I believe Pontiac was using Carter 4-barrel carbs, hence the non-Quadrajet carb pad. I used to have one of those intakes (mine was from a 1966 389 that lived in a GTO) and I sold it forever ago. Can you get a better shot of the casting numbers?
IIRC, there are differences between the early Pontiac V8's and the later ones as far as how the engine mounts work. Somewhere around 1970, the blocks started having 5 bolt holes for the mounts, while earlier castings only had two. I think the later ones will bolt into earlier cars, but not the other way around. I think you should be safe, because that frame looks older than 1970.
And remember: there's no "big block" and "small block" when it comes to Pontiac V8's. Aside from the later 265/301, the external dimensions were all the same. They used different main journal sizes to differentiate between the 326/350/389/400 and the 421/428/455 engines.
This ancient website will be your friend in IDing rusty old Pontiac engine stuff: http://www.wallaceracing.com/engine1.htm
Looks like a 1st gen Firebird frame to me.
Tony's correct about engine mounts/ block bolt holes.
I sold one of those square bore intakes a couple months ago, they were used on the mid 60's GTO's. They're NOT desirable so you haven't got a diamond in the rough there.
Wilwood makes a kit for disc upgrade on drum spindle.
IIRC I finally got $50.00 for this intake after trying to sell it for a couple years on Craigs list. I just couldn't bring myself to scrap it.
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In reply to Tony Sestito :
I think this is the casting number. Looks like 4765 to me.
That front suspension is adequate for a cruiser. If you want a handler, more modern is better. I put a 78 Nova clip in my 67 Camaro with only a welder and common hand tools...
Looking above it appears we had the wrong number. Here's a picture of it. We thought it was 9770816 but looking at a list of intakes I'm thinking it's 9778816 which is 65 GTO?
Great time for Team Stampie to experiment with electrolytic rust removal!
You can convert it to front disc brakes easily, without any kit, just using off the shelf parts. You can even use the spindles on it, with just a modification to the spindle. Here is a good link with info on it: Brakes
Suspension wise there is a ton of stuff to make that subframe work, just depends on what you want to do and spend.
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