Porsche 944 "family" swap possibilities?

turboswede wrote: If you use the 924 turbo bell housing, you can bolt up many of the Audi engine families that use the I5 bell housing pattern.

This, plus the VW-sourced Volvo D24T, running 25 lbs of boost.

Not around here. You are not allowed to use a LS powered 944 in our region of the PCA. Wish I could find the thread from the guy that tried and they sent him away. I didn't make the rule, I just hope to adhere to it, as dumb as it is.

Please don't make this thread about that, let's keep it on topic.

I like the LS swap, but I would only do it to an s2, turbo or 968. The early N/A cars don't have the chassis for it.

Sell it and get an IROC and put an LS in that and then go hang with more fun people.

sc 928 engine?

corytate wrote: sc 928 engine?

Did I miss the part where the OP mentioned the room in his basement filled with cubic dollars?

Just throwing out some ideas here. Don't know if any are possible, or worth it. Just wanted to share.

What about the Cayenne V8? There's got to be some of those that got wrecked by now. How wide is that motor?

Are those W8 motors out of the VW's good for anything? Didn't they make a W12 as well?

johnnytorque wrote: I like the LS swap, but I would only do it to an s2, turbo or 968. The early N/A cars don't have the chassis for it.

Uh, what? There isn't much difference between the chassis over the years and the transaxles are used in GT-40 and Lamborghini replicas quite often.

Brakes aren't even an issue as the stock brakes are more than adequate, even for trackday car.

The 928 motor would actually fit better between the 944 frame rails than on the 928. The 928 bellhousing even uses the same bolt pattern to the torque tube.

The gotchas are the power brake booster would likely be in the way (pretty common on V8 swaps) and the 928 has the clutch in the rear, so you'd have to fit a clutch solution in the small 928 bellhousing.

The 928 uses the same bottom end bearings and parts as the 944 and is a fairly robust motor. Performance parts aren't exactly available from Summit though :(

turboswede wrote:

johnnytorque wrote: I like the LS swap, but I would only do it to an s2, turbo or 968. The early N/A cars don't have the chassis for it.

Uh, what? There isn't much difference between the chassis over the years and the transaxles are used in GT-40 and Lamborghini replicas quite often. Brakes aren't even an issue as the stock brakes are more than adequate, even for trackday car. The 928 motor would actually fit better between the 944 frame rails than on the 928. The 928 bellhousing even uses the same bolt pattern to the torque tube. The gotchas are the power brake booster would likely be in the way (pretty common on V8 swaps) and the 928 has the clutch in the rear, so you'd have to fit a clutch solution in the small 928 bellhousing. The 928 uses the same bottom end bearings and parts as the 944 and is a fairly robust motor. Performance parts aren't exactly available from Summit though :(

While I'm not 100% sure about the s2 chassis, I do know the Turbo chassis has 50% more spot welds in it than the standard N/A cars do.

My brakes are actually quite good. Running Hawk blues at the track I never encountered any fade at all. Not sure about doubling the speed with an LS motor though?

It's funny, I'm sure the post count has to be up to 1 million with people asking if they could swap in the 928 motor. Everybody's response is that it won't fit. the brake setup is no big deal, why has it never been done? I won't be the first though.

Rob_Mopar wrote: Just throwing out some ideas here. Don't know if any are possible, or worth it. Just wanted to share. What about the Cayenne V8? There's got to be some of those that got wrecked by now. How wide is that motor? Are those W8 motors out of the VW's good for anything? Didn't they make a W12 as well?

I looked into it. Cheapest junkyard Cayenne motor around here is approx. $5500. Too rich for me.

The Audi motor is VERY similar and far cheaper.

You guys have me thinking about the LS swap, it's just so good for so little.

johnnytorque wrote: You guys have me thinking about the LS swap, it's just so good for so little.

I'm not a Chevy guy, but "LS1 swap" is the correct answer to many, many problems.

Hey guys, new here. I was researching "different" 944 swaps and came across this thread. Though you might be interested in the following swap videos I found looking around YouTube:

944 with Audi 20v http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iR2sSHdewE

944 with Volvo 16v http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJE0RyNC7uo

944 with Toyota 1jzgte http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zes7MDeIxRQ

Good luck with your project.

Sky_Render wrote:

johnnytorque wrote: You guys have me thinking about the LS swap, it's just so good for so little.

I'm not a Chevy guy, but "LS1 swap" is the correct answer to many, many problems.

I'll admit to being biased against GM. I dont' like them at all. Then I drove my buddies LS3-powered FD. Holy crap! That engine is NICE. Seriously, I wasn't in 4th gear before I looked over at him and said "I'm doin this swap!" Not two months later I'm starting one....

In reply to johnnytorque:

Thinking a little more about this. If you really want to keep it "In the family", why not a v6 from the Cayenne? If I remember correctly, its the same vr6 engine used by the VW R32 gone over by Porsche. Plus its is already sitting the right way and there are probably thousands of them in salvage by now...

I've been considering this swap big time. I know nothing about it, but I do know it would be a fantastic swap.

The biggest issue is the cost of a V6 Cayenne motor. I'm seeing prices around 3500$ For that I could do an LSX. Has to come in around $1000 to be worthwhile.

I believe the difference between the Cayenne VR6 and the others are simply the camshafts used to improve low end torque and the redline is lowered.

If you're considering it, get a regular VR6 and add a Porsche valve cover as you don't want the low end grunt with your sports car ;)

You don't want the maintenance and repair headaches of the VR6 from my experience. The LS is understressed stock, with more power than the VR6 can make reliably, wait, the VR6 doesn't make stock HP reliably.
Not really knocking the VR6, just man is the LS a HUGE bang for the buck.

turboswede wrote: I believe the difference between the Cayenne VR6 and the others are simply the camshafts used to improve low end torque and the redline is lowered. If you're considering it, get a regular VR6 and add a Porsche valve cover as you don't want the low end grunt with your sports car ;)

If I can add a little to this. What you said is true but it is the R32 motor not the basic vr6. So you have to be careful there I think. The 3.2 VR6 would be a really nice 250hp in the car and they sound great! But that bit about the PCA is all wrong. PCA membership has NOTHING to do with what motor is in the car. Race classes would be something else.

My region will not allow LS1 swapped Porsches. Again, I don't agree with it, but that doesn't matter.

I like the sounds of a 250 hp VR6. The big issue is cost, they are just out of reach. The Cayenne motor would be perfect, but at $3500, I might as well do an LS1.(which I won't do)

Last Sunday I blew a disc in my lower back moving my motorcycle in the garage and I'm off work indefinitely. I get the results of an MRI I'm doing on Tuesday. With all my spare time last week I promptly found a set of Koni coilovers for the front of my car and I'm on the hunt for some bigger T-bars. With all that I don't think I'll be doing any swapping anytime soon. My motor is in pristine cond. and it's hard to justify swapping such a strong motor. Last track day I was passing every car in my DE group including numerous 951's and even a 2010 911 Turbo S. It was a very short technical track, but still, how do I justify more power? My issue seems to be the fact that our home track is Mosport and I refuse to run my car there because it is so slow. Mosport will be a bore, it was in my CRX which was a faster car. There is some hope on the horizon in the form of a company developing an AFM delete setup that uses Speed Density which should free up a few HP and increase throttle response. Coupled with a header, custom exhaust(built by me) and a light flywheel, it may shut me up for a bit.

Thanks for everybody's posts, I love this board.

This has been a fun exercise though, and it will come to fruition if I ever blow the motor in my car.

Are you sure you want to rule out a Subie swap?

In reply to SVreX:

What does a WRX motor go for?

I recently sold one for $500 that needed timing gears and a couple of valves. I would think you could find them pretty regularly for under $1000.

There is also the SVX 3.3L. Similar power output (230 hp), flat 6, naturally aspirated. You can buy complete cars for under $1000. I've got a complete parts car with a good motor (bad trans) I'd sell for $700.

if not LSx ; Audi 3.6 or 4.2 V8 or 20v 5cyl turbo

Subie motor probably won't fit. Though I've seen a 911 flat six stuffed in the nose after a LOT of work.

The issue with the Subie stuff is still that it's not in the "family". At the end of the day I would have to swap in something that could be made to look like a Porsche motor. Although that decision is driven by my local region of the PCA, I would also like the car to have a Porsche related engine, just for the coolness factor. In my eyes anyway.

That's why an Audi V8 or 5cyl 20V turbo or Cayenne V6 would be my choices. I hear all you guys with the LSX swap, but it's not all about ease of swap, or all out power, it's about WOW, that's a cool swap, how'd you do that and how does it run.

That's why I built one of the first Mazda KL-ZE swapped cars over 10 years ago, because I thought it was cool. And it was.