Porsche engine/transaxle compatibility question

Does anyone know if any of the 924/944 engines will directly bolt on to any of the VAG longitudinal front engine/front wheel drive transaxles? 

The 924 used the Audi 100LS 2.0L which shares its bellhousing with the later Audi 5, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

The 944 used a Porsche specific bellhousing that isn't shared with any other engine (so far as I know, maybe the 928 engine, but I don't know for sure).

The back of the 924/944 used a more or less standard Audi transaxle, complete with the Audi bellhousing (no TOB parts and an extra hole added for shiftlinkage to pass through).

VW used a different bellhousing pattern on their engines, so where there were Audi cars that shared engines with VW's, they were either shared platforms (transverse drivetrains) or they used Audi transaxles (longitudinal) with different bellhousings castings.

There are adapters available on the aftermarket to fit VW engines to Audi transaxles.  like the VR6 or 1.8T, etc.

Bottom line:  You don't want to use either of the 924 or 944 engines, they aren't the easiest or best for development compared to what is available from VW within the same time frame. 

They also use a separate bellhousing bolted to the front of the torque tube, which is why they make great engine swap fodder as you can build an adapter from the basic torque tube pattern to the bellhousing of your choice.

In reply to Stefan :

This is related to a Challenge idea so cost is a critical factor.  Would that change your recommendation?

I guess the question is:

What are you trying to put together?

What do you have to work with?

In reply to Stefan :

Until I know if there are engine/transaxle combinations that will fit together I don't have anything to put together.  I'm considering a drivetrain for a Porsche 914 roller that's available.  If I knew that the inline four will attach to the original Porsche transaxle for the 914 (901?) or whether I can try to fit the VAG transaxle there's no point in pulling the trigger.

In reply to stroker :

Nope.  You'll need to make or buy an adapter in either of those cases.

An Audi V8 and Audi 01E 6-speed sort of just go together and make lovely, lovely noises.

If you search for Audi 016 or 01E adapters you'll find a number available online, including plans to make your own (if you have a buddy with a machine shop, etc.)

In reply to stroker :

One thing to consider, a 924 trans tube has the pattern at the rear to match an ACVW trans)as I understand/remember) so theoretically you could shorten the trans tube as much as possible, then fabricate a simple plate to attach it to whatever bellhousing works with the engine you have. Assuming you can find an extra ~foot of clearance to make it all fit. 

In reply to Pete Gossett :

Thanks, but again, I don't have the car, the engine or the transmission.   My thought was to find the least expensive (but best compromise) transaxle (something from a 2000 to 2005 VW Passat, for example) then an engine.  Would a FWD Audi drivetrain work? Failing that, I thought that since I see 944's (and 924's) cheap, I wondered if that engine could be made to fit that transaxle.  The Easy Button is probably to find a complete VW or Audi drivetrain (perhaps the V6) and see if that can be made to work.   The problem is that I don't have the dimensions on how big the engine bay is and I don't know the length of that drivetrain from the accessories in front to the centerline of the driveshafts.  For all I know that engine is a foot too long but I have to believe it's in the ballpark

To add to the above:  A general rule is that all-number transaxles like 016, 013 had a single bolt pattern.  VW engined cars had the VW pattern and Audi engined cars had the Audi pattern.  (VW pattern 016s, for example, exist only in Europe, since all AWD cars and front drive 100/200/5000 sold in North America were five cylinder)

If it has a letter, like 01E and 01A, it is dual pattern and will take VW four and Audi.  Basically everything after 1990.

People go the other way all the time and find themselves stymied when they find that you can't bolt an Audi engine to a 944 clutch housing.  You need a 924 part for that.  (924s did not get Audi transaxles until 1981, before that they were Porsche units. No idea if the pre-1981 torque tube is compatible with Audi gearboxes in any fashion)

Doesnt the boxster and the B5 passat 1.8t also share the same transmission pattern? 

Didn't you say 914? Isn't the 914 basically air cooled VW stuff? You're looking at an engine bay designed for a flat-4 engine. I would be looking at FWD Subaru myself and not bother with anything VW/Audi/Porsche. 

In reply to oldopelguy :

The 914/6 used the same chassis, if I'm not mistaken.  There should be enough room for a flat 6, which means a V6 might go.  I read online of a guy who put a 1UZ into a 914 but he said it was an enormous effort. 

Knurled. said:

To add to the above:  A general rule is that all-number transaxles like 016, 013 had a single bolt pattern.  VW engined cars had the VW pattern and Audi engined cars had the Audi pattern.  (VW pattern 016s, for example, exist only in Europe, since all AWD cars and front drive 100/200/5000 sold in North America were five cylinder)

If it has a letter, like 01E and 01A, it is dual pattern and will take VW four and Audi.  Basically everything after 1990.

 

People go the other way all the time and find themselves stymied when they find that you can't bolt an Audi engine to a 944 clutch housing.  You need a 924 part for that.  (924s did not get Audi transaxles until 1981, before that they were Porsche units. No idea if the pre-1981 torque tube is compatible with Audi gearboxes in any fashion)

Before 79, the 924 used an Audi 4-speed transaxle, in 79 had the Porsche 915-based gearbox and the 924 Turbo in 79/80 did as well.  From 80-on they used an Audi 5-speed.  The torque tubes for the Audi's are the same.  The Porsche gearbox is its own.  The NA versions for all of them had a smaller diameter shaft and input shaft and the 924 Turbo (931) had the same diameter and spline count as the 944.  The bellhousing mounting pattern at the front was the same for all of them.

aw614 said:

Doesnt the boxster and the B5 passat 1.8t also share the same transmission pattern? 

Probably not.

B5 Passats would have had 01As or 01Es, which are dual pattern and so the trans  will bolt up to VW four cylinder, or Audi V6.  (Which is the same as Audi five)

Boxsters had 01Es and the trans looks just like a dual pattern trans, BUT there is no certainty whether the engine has a VW pattern, an Audi pattern, or a combination of both.  If it is the combination of both, the engine will only really bolt up to another dual pattern trans.

Stefan said:

Knurled. said:

To add to the above:  A general rule is that all-number transaxles like 016, 013 had a single bolt pattern.  VW engined cars had the VW pattern and Audi engined cars had the Audi pattern.  (VW pattern 016s, for example, exist only in Europe, since all AWD cars and front drive 100/200/5000 sold in North America were five cylinder)

If it has a letter, like 01E and 01A, it is dual pattern and will take VW four and Audi.  Basically everything after 1990.

 

People go the other way all the time and find themselves stymied when they find that you can't bolt an Audi engine to a 944 clutch housing.  You need a 924 part for that.  (924s did not get Audi transaxles until 1981, before that they were Porsche units. No idea if the pre-1981 torque tube is compatible with Audi gearboxes in any fashion)

Before 79, the 924 used an Audi 4-speed transaxle, in 79 had the Porsche 915-based gearbox and the 924 Turbo in 79/80 did as well.  From 80-on they used an Audi 5-speed.  The torque tubes for the Audi's are the same.  The Porsche gearbox is its own.  The NA versions for all of them had a smaller diameter shaft and input shaft and the 924 Turbo (931) had the same diameter and spline count as the 944.  The bellhousing mounting pattern at the front was the same for all of them.

I thought it was 1980 that had the one year only Porsche 5 speed, mainly because I had been fixating on finding an '80 because it's the only 924/944 with a proper shift pattern.

Lots of failed projects on Motorgeek suggest that there are two distinct bellhousings, as people who try to mate up Audi fives or V8s to 944 running gear keep finding.

In reply to Knurled. :

I have a 79 924, it has the dogleg Porsche box.  It was the only year for it in North America for the 924.  The 924 Turbo had the larger input shaft version of it in 79 and 80 (a friend has a 79 931 and another races an 80, both have the dogleg box).  They recently converted their race car from 2.0L power to AAN 20VT, used the same 924 bellhousing and drivetrain, just added the Audi V6TT bellhousing spacer, etc.

944 used a completely different bellhousing pattern, you have to use a 924/924 turbo bellhousing with the Audi V6 TT bellhousing spacer on the 944 torque tube and transaxle.  You also have to highly modify the crossmember and oil pan to fit it in the engine bay.  If you're trying to make it mid-engined, the transaxle should work with the afore mentioned spacer, but the TOB parts aren't there and I'm not sure if the input shaft is configured to handle a clutch.

I thought my Martini 924 had that trans as well, it’s been awhile though.

Will any of these 924 944 transaxles bolt up to an air-cooled engine ?

californiamilleghia said:

Will any of these 924 944 transaxles bolt up to an air-cooled engine ?

The Audi JT engine in my VW Quantum (had 016 trans)  was occasionally air-cooled because of a persistent airlock issue that someties happened with the goofy B2-chassis cooling system.  Drive uphill and watch the temp gauge reach for the stars, turn the ignition off and hold the throttle to the floor when going back down the hill to air cool the engine internally, then turn the ignition back on again to limp up the next hill while still trying to build up enough speed to cool off again down the next hill...

Now THERE's driver involvement.

As for an answer relevant to what you meant:  Hell no.  Not that it should matter, since there are better transmissions out there that WILL bolt up to aircooled engines.  Like the almighty G50.

924 944 transaxles are at pick a part....G50s not !

californiamilleghia said:

924 944 transaxles are at pick a part....G50s not !

I don’t understand.  If you want to use an air cooled motor, just use the stock VW transaxle.

chandler said:

I thought my Martini 924 had that trans as well, it’s been awhile though.

The 77 Martini edition would have an Audi 4-speed, it’s essentially the same as the later Audi 016 5-speed.

Audi 01E bellhousing drawing files from grabcad:

https://grabcad.com/library/01e-audi-transmission-bolt-pattern-1