Potential for a 1st gen Caravan 5-speed?

ValuePack wrote:

CLNSC3 wrote: I can't help but think of this video I saw YEARS ago of a turbo caravan smoking a 4th gen Z28 on the drag strip. IIRC it was an 11 second car...err..van. A built caravan would be the ultimate sleeper, if you could actually get people to race you!

This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ecgFbDop3Q I want to say that was Gus Mahon(RIP), but it's been too long. (man that music sucks)

That's not Gus' van. The one with the woodgrain belongs to this guy:

http://www.turbovan.net/van.html

One of the better things about hearing what Gus Mahon accomplished back then is that you then find out that you can do MUCH BETTER with newer parts and methods a decade later. What took Gus 28 psi of boost to do might today be done on 16 psi with a better setup. His acclaim is still one of the fastest spirit/acclaims to date, but a handful of others have hit 12s and 11s.

I have an 89 spirit im swapping from 2.5/auto to 2.2/5spd in hopes of creating a 35mpg daily commuter. It should be together and running by the end of this month, though the mileage part will probably take a while longer while i accumulate things like an EGT setup, chip burner, familiarize myself with the calibration programs ill have to use, etc. It should still easily run 14s, too.

My god, and I had nearly talked myself OUT of a turbo Chrysler van. Thanks guys, now my wife is REALLY going to hate me.

OK, zombifying this thread as I have come upon a cheap '89 Voyager 5spd. As far as I know, it's not a turbo...yet

The issue is that it won't move itself in gear. The owner says her mechanic told her that he thought the pressure plate was broken. My question is what can I expect time/difficulty-wise pulling the trans. Any pitfalls to look out for? I do plan to get at least a Haynes, but I want the voice of GRM experience prior to purchase, if possible.

TIA

Wow, I was just a reader back then.

won't move itself in gear

Need more specifics!

If it rolls in neutral but wont roll in gear even with the clutch in: internal trans problem.

If it rolls with the clutch in but still doesn't feel connected with the clutch out: clutch problem.

But, i would look under the van and see what the axles are doing when it is in gear with the clutch out. I have heard of someone snapping an axle right at the inner joint so that the shaft appears intact, but when you put the trans in gear the inner cage will spin and just spin the boot on the stationary shaft. In that case it would just be an axle.

As for pulling the trans, the van is the easiest k-car to do it to. I can only think of two little tidbits that are helpful, the rest seems unremarkable..

1. I usually separate lower ball joints to remove axles. My fastest method for doing this without a lift is using a 5-6ft rock bar, sticking it in between the control arm and the k-frame, and prying the control arm down which pops the (unbolted..) lower ball joint out. However, on vans this doesnt seem to work well because the rear control arm bushing will just deflect massively and the arm wont rotate. If you take 4 bolts out and drop the swaybar from the control arm, it will work. However, you can also just disconnect the spindle from the strut, but there ARE camber settings there which will be disturbed if you care about such things.

2. 89 is the last year of transmission that has a really handy bolt hole on top of the transmission. You can bolt a chain to the trans at this hole and raise it back into the car with a hoist, and the trans will naturally hang off of it in a very helpful orientation so it takes less wrestling to get it in, and you dont have to share space with a jack while you are trying to get it back onto the motor.

One of my work vans is a 89 Turbo Auto...

and the other I picked up just weeks ago... a 1990 Factory issue Turbo 5spd..

With the other recent addtion of a 87 CSX.. life is good around here...

I highly recommend the turbo van.. So much fun... and one of if not the roomiest turbo mopar anything under the hood.

Oh.. and about the most recent question about not moving.. Two experiences.. years ago I purchased a 85 Shelby charger for cheap because the tranny was broke.. I heard a weird noise with a buddy sitting in the car with it in gear... One driveaxle and 45 minutes later I drove it home...

The other... I drove 4 hours to look at an 87 GLHS.. I wasn't going to buy it if it wouldn't drive home.. so instead of taking the truck we drove a friends 86 TurboZ daytona.. :) Take the GLHS on a test drive and all is well.. had a couple shakes and shimmies.. but whatever.. paid the man and pulled out of the driveway.. shifted into 2nd and the car wouldn't move.. nothing.. No gears. no motion.. So all the way 4 hours back home to get the truck and all the way back up and back to get the car...

It had spun the center out of the clutch disk..

Vigo wrote:

won't move itself in gear

Need more specifics! If it rolls in neutral but wont roll in gear even with the clutch in: internal trans problem. If it rolls with the clutch in but still doesn't feel connected with the clutch out: clutch problem. But, i would look under the van and see what the axles are doing when it is in gear with the clutch out. I have heard of someone snapping an axle right at the inner joint so that the shaft appears intact, but when you put the trans in gear the inner cage will spin and just spin the boot on the stationary shaft. In that case it would just be an axle. As for pulling the trans, the van is the easiest k-car to do it to. I can only think of two little tidbits that are helpful, the rest seems unremarkable.. 1. I usually separate lower ball joints to remove axles. My fastest method for doing this without a lift is using a 5-6ft rock bar, sticking it in between the control arm and the k-frame, and prying the control arm down which pops the (unbolted..) lower ball joint out. However, on vans this doesnt seem to work well because the rear control arm bushing will just deflect massively and the arm wont rotate. If you take 4 bolts out and drop the swaybar from the control arm, it will work. However, you can also just disconnect the spindle from the strut, but there ARE camber settings there which will be disturbed if you care about such things. 2. 89 is the last year of transmission that has a really handy bolt hole on top of the transmission. You can bolt a chain to the trans at this hole and raise it back into the car with a hoist, and the trans will naturally hang off of it in a very helpful orientation so it takes less wrestling to get it in, and you dont have to share space with a jack while you are trying to get it back onto the motor.

Wish I could be more specific, but the owner hasn't been very helpful other than to say it "doesn't go when you put it in gear". It apparently rolls since there is still a tow-strap attached to the front, but I don't know whether it was in neutral, or not.

I had hoped to be more enlightened before posting again, but my trip to look at it was somewhat fruitless. For starters, it was raining, so I chose not to crawl under it to look at the structure. Secondly, despite the seller saying she would be there all afternoon until 6pm, no one seemed to be around. So, I looked at what I could. There is significant rust around the rear wheel wheels and a couple of moderately-sized holes in the rocker behind the driver-side door. Other than that, it seems pretty solid.

I've already checked boneyards for a replacement trans. and have found a few cheap, if needed. Clutch kits are pretty cheap. I've emailed the seller again tonight to try to reschedule the showing. No response, yet.

Vigo wrote: Ive got a 90 5spd caravan. It's one of my favorite vehicles. When mine was non-turbo, it got 27-33 mpg. I swapped in a turbo motor, the same kind that my challenge car trapped 98 mph and put 320 lb ft to the wheels on with less than $500 of motor parts. Im also swapping in a 3.0 sohc 6g72 mitsu v6. There is a 5spd that bolts to that that's a drop in for my van. Im planning on strapping an m90 to the top of it. Im also vaguely formulating plans for a dohc 6g72 so i can rev my van to 8000 rpm. Im also planning on using AWD caravan rear end parts to make it a gas/electric AWD hybrid similar in concept to the challenge Fiero of Bryce Nash. I can tell you all sorts of stuff about suspension and on and on.. Once you tell me you care! But as far as getting good mileage or going fast or travelling in comfort and stealth.. yes, there's no doubt it can do those things.

Will the twin cam heads clear on the 6g72? I know a couple of...tuners... that...know things about those and turbos.

mndsm wrote:

Vigo wrote: Ive got a 90 5spd caravan. It's one of my favorite vehicles. When mine was non-turbo, it got 27-33 mpg. I swapped in a turbo motor, the same kind that my challenge car trapped 98 mph and put 320 lb ft to the wheels on with less than $500 of motor parts. Im also swapping in a 3.0 sohc 6g72 mitsu v6. There is a 5spd that bolts to that that's a drop in for my van. Im planning on strapping an m90 to the top of it. Im also vaguely formulating plans for a dohc 6g72 so i can rev my van to 8000 rpm. Im also planning on using AWD caravan rear end parts to make it a gas/electric AWD hybrid similar in concept to the challenge Fiero of Bryce Nash. I can tell you all sorts of stuff about suspension and on and on.. Once you tell me you care! But as far as getting good mileage or going fast or travelling in comfort and stealth.. yes, there's no doubt it can do those things.

Will the twin cam heads clear on the 6g72? I know a couple of...tuners... that...know things about those and turbos.

Fires up plasma torch Won't be a problem!

A 3.8L DOHC MIVEC Mitsu V6 TT should be doable with appropriate parts swappage. Finding a transaxle to handle it could be difficult....

Vigo wrote: Of course, there are 2 rare 16v head setups that use the same basic bottom end. One was the Lotus head that came on spirit r/t's. SVreX here has a spirit like that. A few of those motors have gone past 500whp. One has powered a FWD drag car into the low 8s @180.

Vigo has the wizardry, I've got the parts.

As soon as someone is ready to build this animal, I've got BOTH the complete turbo 16V Lotus head Spirit RT (which has the 5 speed) AND the turbo van rolling shell.

Just bolt all the pieces together, spray paint "free candy" on the side, and blast off!

My Spirit was a street racer in it's former life, so it's also bored out to 2.5L, and got an upgraded computer. It was one of the fastest cars I've ever driven.

The van is straight and true. It has a lot of surface rust, but that all. No rot, no cancer, no dents. Let's call it well patina-ed.

This is a Challenge no-brainer, and I need badly to clear 2 spots in my corral. Step up, step up! The Freak show is about ready to begin!

You won't regret buying one they're a blast.

SVreX, care to send some of the pics of that van my way? My computer business needs a work van, and the geeky angle is paying off a bit, kind of like the Geek Squad. The only vans that seem to suit the business are older boxy vans, and a Caravan just feels right. Paint isn't a problem, but I won't be able to get up that way for a few months.

These vans have come onto my radar because I'm looking for something that's cheap, fun, and looks good in black with my business logo on the side.

Oh... You don't even know fun until you have tried a moderately fast van dressed up like this against some unsuspecting victims...

And I might add... Great for business...

In reply to Derick Freese:

Sure. Email me through the board so I have your email address. I'm too busy at work right now to play the Flckr game to try to get any pics loaded up in the forum, but emailing is much easier.

Damn this place... Got me looking for old, clapped out, used up, turbo Mopars.... Did find a TurboIII 5spd Daytona for almost Challenge money tho....

Yeah, I was getting all stoked and now the seller has stopped responding. WTF.

I recommend buying SVreXs stuff, simply because he is a good guy.

Also it's probably a smoking deal for what you get.

Vigo wrote: I recommend buying SVreXs stuff, simply because he is a good guy. Also it's probably a smoking deal for what you get.

Paul.is.AWESOME!...but between getting it all here and the "some assembly required" aspect, I don't have the resources to take on a project like that, right now. Maybe next year, but I'm sure he'd like it all gone before then. I was hoping to slap a new clutch/trans in the one I found here and be done. It is also at a better-than-BABE-friendly price. Unfortunately, I'm sensing the seller is having second thoughts about selling it. She said she has owned it for 11 years and indicated she had a certain attachment to it. This deal may not happen.

Thanks guys! Check's in the mail...

Derick, I sent you some pics. I think it would be a great birthday present to buy for yourself today!

(cue music) Happy Birthday to you, happy... (ok, stop that stupid music)