power or handling? (disgusted with myself)

Hey,

My turn to ask for advise on this forum, i'm afraid to ask the celica forums on this one, they'll be mad at me for getting rid of my longtime lover.

Anyways, the white 1993 Coupe, i just got an offer of $1500 on, which right now, i'm extremely tempted to take. 99% sure i will. I always loved coupes, they were my favorite 5th gens, even including alltracs.

Anyways, the black 1992 hatch is growing on me. It's a brutal car to drive around daily, but it's kindof part of it charm.

Here's my dilemma:

The motor in the black car isn't very strong, the car is SLOW. I do have a couple more things to try with it, but it's definitely abnormally slow, even for a camry engine.

BUT: It handles well. Chassis is stiff, minimal roll, teeth-chattering ride, and it stops on a dime. But i want more. I could use some better struts, and a rear swaybar.

My question: Do i use half this money to get a set of Koni Yellows and a Suspension Techniques rear sway bar? And just live with a horribly slow engine? Or do i acccept the handling for what it is right now, and add some power so i have the OPTION of overwhelming the suspension?

$1500 could get me my 3sgte swap in the car, running, with some miscellaneous goodies such as fmic, 3" exhaust, and boost controller. Go from a 17.0 car in the quarter, to at LEAST a 13.8-14.0. With a base to get into the 12s on the cheap from there.

Advises, please!!

Also, if you're going to say "Miata!!" please say "AW11!!" instead.

"MiAW11ta!"

You're complaining about the lack of power. You're not complaining about the lack of handling. Fix the shortcomings first.

When you get the funds built up again, then you can up the suspension that will have tired a bit.

Ouch. A 17 second quarter-mile? I'd have to put some more engine in there. You can have the best-handling car in the world, but if you have to push it around a race track, you're not going to be winning any trophies.

And for street survival! Who wants to jump onto an interstate during rush-hour with a semi barreling down the ramp behind you and a wall of cars next to you when you aren't sure you can make it to the speed limit in the next few minutes?

You can do suspension later, right?

as clarkson would say: POWWAR

but seriously i think my geo would do it in 17

3gtse ftw

Salanis wrote: "MiAW11ta!" You're complaining about the lack of power. You're not complaining about the lack of handling. Fix the shortcomings first. When you get the funds built up again, then you can up the suspension that will have tired a bit.

That's the mindset i'm in right about now as well.... just needed someone else to say it i guess.

Looks like i'll need another beater, though, i'm not about to drive a car like that during the winters here. :p

confuZion3 wrote: Ouch. A 17 second quarter-mile? I'd have to put some more engine in there. You can have the best-handling car in the world, but if you have to push it around a race track, you're not going to be winning any trophies. And for street survival! Who wants to jump onto an interstate during rush-hour with a semi barreling down the ramp behind you and a wall of cars next to you when you aren't sure you can make it to the speed limit in the next few minutes? You can do suspension later, right?

Suspension isn't bad now.... i beat on it at Deal's Gap and it did very well, i was pretty impressed.

17 second quarter may be an exaggeration, 5th gens aren't fast to begin with, but this one seems weak to me, especially considering it's stripped state. The coupe that i'm selling weighs about 3-400lbs more, also bone stock, with 100k more miles, and it'll literally pull 8 cars on a 0-80 pull on the black car.

Sounds good, i'm sold. I had cash on hand for the rear sway anyways, so i'll just do that, and live with the crappy struts for now.

My AE92 SR5's quarter mile is probably well over 17secs and it's more than fast enough to drive on the street, and competitive with other 1.3~1.8L I4-powered little japanese cars on the track. If you need to compete with much more powerful cars, or you're into dragging, go for the power...otherwise get the suspension upgrades. Weak engines make you a good driver

Is it even a question?

MORE POWER RRR

GameboyRMH wrote: Weak engines make you a good driver

You have a point. There's nothing like pulling 8 car lengths on that brand-new GT-500 at an HPDE when you're coming off a turn behind him in a 130 hp Miata (or Celica).

and then watching him wipe the silly little smile off your face as his super-charged demon blasts down the straight throwing those 8 car lengths you gained on him out the window and pulling 40 more.

But you still smile because you know you will find him again by turn 3.

GameboyRMH wrote: My AE92 SR5's quarter mile is probably well over 17secs and it's more than fast enough to drive on the street, and competitive with other 1.3~1.8L I4-powered little japanese cars on the track. If you need to compete with much more powerful cars, or you're into dragging, go for the power...otherwise get the suspension upgrades. Weak engines make you a good driver

Yeah.... i had an AE86 SR5..... SLOW.

I would be happy with it for the time being if it was a healthy 5sfe, but there's something just not right with it, and i don't really feel the need to dump any money into a Camry motor at the moment. I could deal with how fast it was if i knew it was running right, but it's not. I wouldn't do a track day with this motor the way it is. 3sgte gives me instant gratification and twice the power.

Plus it doesn't help that my coupe was a complete freak of nature in how fast it was for what it was. 15.9 quarter mile is unheard of in these cars stock. Most cars get more like 16.5 with a GOOD driver.

Find me an AE92 GT-S, that would be a good alternative for me vs swapping the black car. :)

at first, i was going to say get the suspension but then i read about the 17 second quarter! Wow, get that new engine

phillyj wrote: at first, i was going to say get the suspension but then i read about the 17 second quarter! Wow, get that new engine

Hahah, it's an estimate, it might crack 16s. Just has zero power above 4k rpms, and starts to sound like it's running lean. I'm sure it would be ok after a full tune-up/refresher, i just don't care about it enough. :)

For those wondering in the States.... Celicas are SLOOOOOOWWWWWWW when stock. Unless you have an alltrac, or a 7th gen GT-S. And even the Alltracs aren't quick. Low 15s is not impressive.

They just handle well.

Get more power. Chances are that the chassis won't be overwhelmed by the additional power, and if it is, then get the struts and sway bar.

Are there things that you can take OFF the car for free?

Once you get your current enigne running like it should, at least making the car lighter would help both handling and acceleration.

Seats, sound deadening, speakers, lots of items can be taken off for weight.

For fun, you could even try to make your hood and trunk from fiberglass.... Or search this board (or the previous one) for threads on making fender flairs out of glass- and cut the old metal away.

Since you don't care- there's a TON you can take off for free.... ;)

Eric

Alfadriver's right.

I removed 40 pounds from my Miata's TRUNK! Speakers? Who needs them? TWO amplifiers?! Gone! Head unit? More like, DEAD unit! There's a carbon fiber board there now. In total, probably 70 pounds came out of there in a hurry.

Now if they only made a light-weight gasoline . . .

What is your primary target? Drag or Autocross? That's the difference right there; one needs power, one needs handling. Obviously the best combo is to have sufficient both of 'em.

power first

confuZion3 wrote: Now if they only made a light-weight gasoline . . .

They do it is called propane ;) The tank is heavier though.

Salanis wrote: You're complaining about the lack of power. You're not complaining about the lack of handling. Fix the shortcomings first.

I agree completely, you've stated the suspension is nice but not 100% whereas the engine is wheezed and honestly sounds like it's giving up the ghost. I'd do the engine, you've already got a good baseline in the suspension department.

I agree.. take care of the engine first. Nobody wants to feel like they are driving a super handling car with a 12hp engine.

You can get a go cart if you want that feeling

alfadriver wrote: Are there things that you can take OFF the car for free? Once you get your current enigne running like it should, at least making the car lighter would help both handling and acceleration. Seats, sound deadening, speakers, lots of items can be taken off for weight. For fun, you could even try to make your hood and trunk from fiberglass.... Or search this board (or the previous one) for threads on making fender flairs out of glass- and cut the old metal away. Since you don't care- there's a TON you can take off for free.... ;) Eric

Already rocking no interior save for door panels, dash, and two front seats. The engine is just weak... when i completely stripped my 93 coupe, it ate 99-2000 Civic Si like it was nothing.

Anyways, you guys all rule. The reason why i'm disgusted with myself is that i've been accumulating parts to swap the 3sgte into the 93 coupe that i sold last night for the better part of the last 2 years, and i always told myself that i would swap it, and keep it forever. My mother bought the car in 1995, so it was rather bittersweet getting rid of it.

I just needed other people to tell me to swap the 92 hatch. Which you guys did, so..... here we go. (Picking up a JDM ST185 clip this weekend)

I'm going to take the swap slow, do it right. Toyota Solara V6 manual E153 transmission TRD Japan Solara V6 LSD (got about 2 years ago) MR2 inner axles Alltrac outer axles ST185 clip

Should give me a decent base. :)