Prius bad for the environment?

And the Smart is not so smart in the fact that it is a brick going through the air.

Imagine all of that Smart technology in the CRX body.

FWIW I still want an Insight with a big turbo Honda engine and modified quarters.

aircooled wrote: Because, if you can effectively recycle a good percentage of the Lithium at a reasonable cost, you will need FAR less from the "foreigners". This make you less "utterly" dependent.

Well, that's kinda true.

However, the initial shift would be 100% new purchases, and by the time there was any significant percentages of recycled Lithium in the supply stream, the demand would have increased, and the battery technology would have changed, so in practical terms recycling would not really slow down the relationship with the providers of Lithium, though recycling is a nice idea.

Haven't been to the board in quite a while, been re-evaluating my life and interests. Anyway, stopped in at lunch today out of boredom and can't believe I'm the first to post this on this thread (unless I just missed it).

So check out the Season 11 1st episode of Top Gear, they just covered this very topic. First they make a case about the batteries, yada, yada and yawn and then decide to do "real world testing". So they drive the Prius all out on the test track and Clarkson follows in an M3 (I believe) just keeping up with the Prius. Low and behold, the Prius came in at 17mpg with the M3 at 19 for those conditions. Clarkson decrees to save the world, buy the M3.

SVreX wrote: Oh, I forgot some of the safety aspects... -Hybrids utilize high voltage which can be lethal to emergency workers, bystanders, or vehicle occupants. The bigger problem is that people don't understand this. Most people understand if they come up on a wreck and see fuel spilling or flames that there is a very great danger. Unfortunately, they do not understand the electrical safety risks if they come up on a wreck. Twisted metal could be positively charged, a car in standing water could charge the water, a second vehicle in the wreck could be charged. -Some models (mostly earlier) can have issues for mechanics and other workers. I am familiar with a Toyota mechanic who was changing the oil on a Prius. He had left the door open, and the dome light was wearing down the battery. When the voltage dropped to a pre-determined level, the gas engine started, just like it was supposed to to re-charge the batteries. Unfortunately, there was no oil in the crankcase. -Another case was that of a roll-back operator. The Prius was dead, and in gear as he loaded it onto the truck. The forward rolling of the wheels and the re-generative braking system was enough to get a bit of charge back into the batterries. The vehicle started and drove over the cab of his truck.

I don't know that much about the Prius, but in both of these cases wouldn't the key have to be in the on position (and the car in gear) for these things to happen?

I did a little looking online and found this http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/342433.html which seems to have some reputable answers about the safety aspects of the batteries in a hybrid car.

ignorant wrote: Alfa driver is correct. Making Diesels "green" is tough.. Most of the attempts at doing so add significant weight and complexity to the system. I believe the benefits will come in time, but at that point will we have HCCI gasoline engines. I do believe that using HCCI or a diesel running at a steady rpm driving a generator can be made very clean and pretty cheaply.... Steady state is the way to go for optimum efficiency, Think tractor.

That's pretty much how a diesel electric locomotive works, only AFAIK it doesn't use batteries.

stuart in mn wrote:

SVreX wrote: Oh, I forgot some of the safety aspects... -Hybrids utilize high voltage which can be lethal to emergency workers, bystanders, or vehicle occupants. The bigger problem is that people don't understand this. Most people understand if they come up on a wreck and see fuel spilling or flames that there is a very great danger. Unfortunately, they do not understand the electrical safety risks if they come up on a wreck. Twisted metal could be positively charged, a car in standing water could charge the water, a second vehicle in the wreck could be charged. -Some models (mostly earlier) can have issues for mechanics and other workers. I am familiar with a Toyota mechanic who was changing the oil on a Prius. He had left the door open, and the dome light was wearing down the battery. When the voltage dropped to a pre-determined level, the gas engine started, just like it was supposed to to re-charge the batteries. Unfortunately, there was no oil in the crankcase. -Another case was that of a roll-back operator. The Prius was dead, and in gear as he loaded it onto the truck. The forward rolling of the wheels and the re-generative braking system was enough to get a bit of charge back into the batterries. The vehicle started and drove over the cab of his truck.

I don't know that much about the Prius, but in both of these cases wouldn't the key have to be in the on position (and the car in gear) for these things to happen? I did a little looking online and found this http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/342433.html which seems to have some reputable answers about the safety aspects of the batteries in a hybrid car.

I had to do a couple of tests regarding the Durango/Aspen hybrid due in our stores any time now. There are a couple of oddball things: if the key is in the switch and the hood latch is pulled, the engine starts. That's so someone going in the engine compartment won't get a nasty surprise.

If the batteries are fully charged, when the ignition is switched on the gas engine does not start. Instead, a 'Ready' light comes on and the car is driven completely by electric power until the gas engine is needed. If the main battery power is low enough, turning on the ignition starts the gas engine. That's why the engine starts when the hood is popped, so someone won't be mucking about in the engine compartment and it accidentally starts. AFAIK, the engine will not auto start with the hood open, assuming the hood was opened before the key was put in the switch.

If the A/C is turned on when the ignition is switched on, it will work even if the gas engine is not running because the A/C compressor is electrically driven from the main battery.

The 12V accessories (radio, etc) in the car run on their own separate plain jane lead acid battery which has nothing to do with starting the gas engine. That's done by the front electric motor in the 'transmission'.

The main battery is located under the rear seat and has a big ol' emergency disconnect which looks very much like a disconnect for a home A/C or heat pump unit. Yanking this thing out disconnects the main battery completely. That's a good thing because the system operates on 288 volts.

And the smart car weighs 1600 pounds. The 20 year old civic was heavier and got better mileage.... I agree that 20 years should have made a better difference

Is there anything that the Smart car does better than a good compact or subcompact car? I would suggest that the ability to get in and out of tiny parking places is where the list begins and ends.

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kreb wrote:

And the smart car weighs 1600 pounds. The 20 year old civic was heavier and got better mileage.... I agree that 20 years should have made a better difference

Is there anything that the "Smart" car does better than a good compact or subcompact car? I would suggest that the ability to get in and out of tiny parking places is where the list begins and ends.

That and pick up "Earthy Chicks".

I'd take an early '90s Civic hatch in a heartbeat. The Smart is just goofy and not exceptionally fuel efficient.