Production Toyota GT 86 unveiled

The Tire Rack images are already scaled! And they overlay nicely. E39 M5 versus Dodge Challenger. Yowza.

Now, who wants to automate this?

alfadriver wrote: BTW, with the buying talk- what's the numbers for the subie vs. the yota version- 50/50, or more yota? And I mean YOU- posters here. And no need to actually plan to buy one. Just curious what the current breakdown is.

It sounds like the Subaru is being marketed a bit more upmarket, so it may retail for more. Then again, the Toyota has all of the "legacy" stuff behind it, which may drive real-world prices up.

I would probably get the more affordable of the two, but my initial leaning it towards the Toyota. 6-speed, cloth seats, no traction control, and a single CD player would be about perfect, options-wise. Cruise control would be nice, too.

Ian F wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Ian F: New. When the NA's branched off, I wasn't a big fan of that, which has resulted in NA-S class, as I thought it would. I would still think CS will work fine. But that's just me.

Maybe... hard to really know for sure until the car is in public hands and can be fondled by serious auto-crossers. Too many unknowns right now: how big a tire can fit? Camber bolts? Gearing?

So, do you put it in a class that it should be ok in, since most of what is published has it very close to a NC (CS), or a class that you can be sure it will be competetive (DS)?

Seems like SCCA is sliding to the awards for the popular classes than real competition between cars. Heck, I've seen enough PAX data that could put the Miata in BS. And IIRC, ASP, BSP, and CSP are a very tight grouping- it's not until DSP and ESP where you see a real drop off.

2600lb, 4cyl, RWD- all points to CS. Close enough.

2011 Camaro vs E30 M3. I have to stop.

MitchellC wrote:

alfadriver wrote: BTW, with the buying talk- what's the numbers for the subie vs. the yota version- 50/50, or more yota? And I mean YOU- posters here. And no need to actually plan to buy one. Just curious what the current breakdown is.

It sounds like the Subaru is being marketed a bit more upmarket, so it may retail for more. Then again, the Toyota has all of the "legacy" stuff behind it, which may drive real-world prices up. I would probably get the more affordable of the two, but my initial leaning it towards the Toyota. 6-speed, cloth seats, no traction control, and a single CD player would be about perfect, options-wise. Cruise control would be nice, too.

I wish we could do polls here. This is a perfect candidate.

Keith wrote: 2011 Camaro vs E30 M3. I have to stop.

No, you need to start a new thread!

Right now I'm leaning towards the Subaru, but that's more due to the local Subaru dealer being the least sleazy of our local dealerships.

Based on the specs so far, I don't see enough of a difference between the FR-S and the BRZ to have a reason to go one way or the other outside of what they're going to be stickered at.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: REALLY glad to see 17s as the wheel size.

I'd be glad-er to see 15... or 14. I know, I know. Man, I sound like an old dude more and more every day. I remember when 16" wheels were considered HUGE.

Just try and find a good tire over 205 for a 14 or 15" wheel, can't do it. Theres a reason I have 2 sets of 16"s for my Supra and am considering a set of 17"s.

SupraWes wrote:

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: REALLY glad to see 17s as the wheel size.

I'd be glad-er to see 15... or 14. I know, I know. Man, I sound like an old dude more and more every day. I remember when 16" wheels were considered HUGE.

Just try and find a good tire over 205 for a 14 or 15" wheel, can't do it. Theres a reason I have 2 sets of 16"s for my Supra and am considering a set of 17"s.

There's more out there for 15s than 16s, as far as i'm concerned. 225/45-15 in both Hankook and Toyo flavor.

My favorite 16" size is gone. 245/45-16. And i only used those because 245/40-16 didn't exist.

I'm leaning toward the Scion. It looks so far to have fewer options to start with whereas the BRZ looks like it will be more upmarket, plus Scion has no-haggle pricing and typically has low MSRPs. After all, Toyota is marketing the car to recent college graduates.

200 hp, 2,700 lbs (2,689 if you want to get technical) low $20k price tag.

Likely around 6.7 seconds 0-60 unless it has a 4.10 rear-end. No thanks.

ReverendDexter wrote: Alright, now what's the lug-pattern... and the MSRP. REALLY glad to see 17s as the wheel size.

I'd bet on 5x100, like the WRX. They won't do the STi 5x114 hubs for a car this light, there's no real point.

as to the 215 tire width....keep in mind that's the same width that pre-2009 WRX's came with, IIRC. And they weigh about 600lbs more.

alfadriver wrote: BTW, with the buying talk- what's the numbers for the subie vs. the yota version- 50/50, or more yota? And I mean YOU- posters here. And no need to actually plan to buy one. Just curious what the current breakdown is.

I'd definitely buy the Subaru version. Looks better, and that's a Subaru engine under the hood, even if it says toyota on it.

And subaru is way cooler than toyota, except when it comes to trucks/SUVs.

(btw, I have both a Toyota and a Subaru sitting in my garage at the moment)

I'm hoping for 5x4.5

MitchellC wrote: Then again, the Toyota has all of the "legacy" stuff behind it, which may drive real-world prices up. I would probably get the more affordable of the two, but my initial leaning it towards the Toyota. 6-speed, cloth seats, no traction control, and a single CD player would be about perfect, options-wise. Cruise control would be nice, too.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the Subaru version will be more "upscale." Generally-speaking, the wrx and sti have never been "upscale" - the current models still have hard-plastic dashes, plastic door panels with no padding, cloth seats (except in Limited trim), and pretty basic interiors. I see no reason why the BRZ would "go upscale."

It's Toyota that is more known for tech/creature comforts (ahem: Lexus). My neighbor's Camry is far more loaded than any Legacy or Impreza I've ever been in.

The extra weight on the subie might come from things like bigger wheels/tires, heavier seats for better bolstering, or other "non comfort" features. Who knows though.

btw, Subaru is the one with all the Legacy stuff behind it ;)

I like the Toyota's styling more (except the taillights, but a bit of paint could probably solve that). I'm curious to see if they make any revisions when it comes over as a Scion. I would probably go for that one. I wonder what kind of options they'll have? I remember when the concepts were making rounds, there was talk of no CD player, but instead a plain HD radio with aux in for your MP3/phone/whathaveyous - sounds right up my alley. Skip the nav, give me more gauges! I wonder if there will be a factory suspension upgrade offering with the usual stiffer springs & bars, etc. I'll take mine in blue. If the final product is any good and the price stays down, I probably WILL have mine in blue

Keith wrote: 2011 Camaro vs E30 M3. I have to stop.

don't ever put an e30 m3 and that green bloated piece of crap near each other again, or compare them in any way

RexSeven wrote: I'm leaning toward the Scion. It looks so far to have fewer options to start with whereas the BRZ looks like it will be more upmarket, plus Scion has no-haggle pricing and typically has low MSRPs. After all, Toyota is marketing the car to recent college graduates.

Subaru markets to future college dropouts, didn't you know?

alfadriver wrote: 2600lb, 4cyl, RWD- all points to CS. Close enough.

Then why is the E30 318is in H-Stock?

We'll just have to see.

Ian F wrote:

alfadriver wrote: 2600lb, 4cyl, RWD- all points to CS. Close enough.

Then why is the E30 318is in H-Stock? We'll just have to see.

130hp vs 200hp?

alfadriver wrote: I wish we could do polls here. This is a perfect candidate.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/brz-vs-86-which-do-you-like-better/42565/page1/

In reply to irish44j:

Wasn't that Mitsubushi?

My money is on DS. CS crop of cars = too fast for this.

DuctTape&Bondo wrote: In reply to irish44j: Wasn't that Mitsubushi?

only during the DSM/Galant VR4 days ;)

When broke college students would go even broker trying to keep their cars on the road.

irish44j wrote:

MitchellC wrote: Then again, the Toyota has all of the "legacy" stuff behind it, which may drive real-world prices up. I would probably get the more affordable of the two, but my initial leaning it towards the Toyota. 6-speed, cloth seats, no traction control, and a single CD player would be about perfect, options-wise. Cruise control would be nice, too.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the Subaru version will be more "upscale." Generally-speaking, the wrx and sti have never been "upscale" - the current models still have hard-plastic dashes, plastic door panels with no padding, cloth seats (except in Limited trim), and pretty basic interiors. I see no reason why the BRZ would "go upscale."

I'm just going off of what I have heard, and the rumor mill has said that the Subaru will be a bit more upscale. Simple as that.