Project engine candidate noodling...

Humor me.  This won't make much sense.

Let's assume I'm wanting to start a project which I aspire to bring to the Challenge at some point before I tip over.  This would not be a serious effort to compete, just a test bed for learning various fabrication/maintenance skills (welding, riveting, engine assembly, bleeding brakes, etc.).  Let's further assume I want it to have a straight six engine, just because, and I'd strongly prefer a manual transmission.

I'm leaning to a Slant Six just because they're available as a unit with the manual transmission fairly frequently, cheap and reliable.  

Can The Hive nominate some straight six engine/transmission combinations that are inexpensive, reliable and available that fit my criteria?

BMW M54

i confess to having no experience with M54.  My i6 experience is with the S50 (1995 M3) and the N52 (2007 525xi and 2010 328i)

I don't speak BMW lingo but I am a fan of the 2.5/2.7 that they used in the 80s.  Fairly simple and reliable and has some fairly inexpensive performance potential.

Ford 300 - it's big, but has goping amounts of torque and can be attached to most any manual gearbox, because it uses the same bellhousing pattern as a SBF. 

The later 'big sixes' Ford made for Torinos and Mustangs in 200 and 250cid also often have 6-bolt SBF patterns. You have to be careful though, because they made quite a few 144s and 170s with 5-bolt patterns and the 200 is largely indistinguishable from them externally. 

In reply to DocRob :

 Now I wonder if the 144/170 bolt pattern is the same as the 221/260/early 289 bolt pattern or if it is different.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

BMW M54

i confess to having no experience with M54.  My i6 experience is with the S50 (1995 M3) and the N52 (2007 525xi and 2010 328i)

It's also important to put the "B" after. M54 is the family of engines, because there are 3 different displacements and the one you want is the M54B30 (30 designating it's the 3.0L version). 

Much like the engine in your car was the S50B30, where as the 96-99 M3s received the S52B32. Both of which are different from the Euro-only S50B32 (notice the small name change), which was the forerunner to the S54B32.

In reply to Pete:

The M20B25 (E30 325i/is engine) doesn't really have that much potential without slapping a hair dryer on it. The M20B27 is the motor that was in the 325e, the economy motor that doesn't even rev to 5k, not much potential there. 

In reply to z31maniac :

There was a local who found that the 2.7 could easily make 300/300 at the wheels with a turbo, very low buck builds.  And if it blew up, engines were cheap because nobody cared about the eta engine...

z31maniac said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

BMW M54

i confess to having no experience with M54.  My i6 experience is with the S50 (1995 M3) and the N52 (2007 525xi and 2010 328i)

It's also important to put the "B" after. M54 is the family of engines, because there are 3 different displacements and the one you want is the M54B30 (30 designating it's the 3.0L version). 

Much like the engine in your car was the S50B30, where as the 96-99 M3s received the S52B32. Both of which are different from the Euro-only S50B32 (notice the small name change), which was the forerunner to the S54B32.

In reply to Pete:

The M20B25 (E30 325i/is engine) doesn't really have that much potential without slapping a hair dryer on it. The M20B27 is the motor that was in the 325e, the economy motor that doesn't even rev to 5k, not much potential there. 

Good info here!

M20b27 engine can be made into something a bit better with either a head swap or a cam swap,  can't remember which.  There are 2 teams in champcar running them and they are noticeably quicker than a standard m20b25.

A buddy just bought a warrantied 27k mile GM Atlas for $600 from a reputable wrecking yard. That same weekend another came up on Marketplace for $600 with the manual transmission swap included so he bought that too.

 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to DocRob :

 Now I wonder if the 144/170 bolt pattern is the same as the 221/260/early 289 bolt pattern or if it is different.

The bolt pattern is very different. I might still have access to a CPC bellhousing to bolt one to a T5 from my old Falcon, but the 170/200/250 motor is such a turd I would recommend avoiding it

In reply to Trent :

That would be my recommendation 

Trent said:

A buddy just bought a warrantied 27k mile GM Atlas for $600 from a reputable wrecking yard. That same weekend another came up on Marketplace for $600 with the manual transmission swap included so he bought that too.

 

Do you know if that was a homebrew swap or a commercially available aftermarket kit...?

The 90s BMW, Mercedes straight 6's are plentiful and cheap. Don't forget NA 2jz engines are cheap too. All can be bolted to an oem manual transmission as well without being huge like the Atlas.

Jeep 4.0 and AX15
190hp stock and not terrible to add a turbo
Trans, while truckish, is same basis as AR5 found in the solstice and R154 found behind 2JZs

And it bolts up to Classic AMCs!

stroker said:

Trent said:

A buddy just bought a warrantied 27k mile GM Atlas for $600 from a reputable wrecking yard. That same weekend another came up on Marketplace for $600 with the manual transmission swap included so he bought that too.

 

Do you know if that was a homebrew swap or a commercially available aftermarket kit...?

I would assume at that price it came from a manual trans Colorado, which are not hard to find.

This seems like a good info dump for putting an MA5 behind a vortech 4200

M50/M52 are cheap. 

225 slant six are bullet proof, not as quick, but hard to kill.  Go back a step, do you have a body in mind?

914Driver said:

225 slant six are bullet proof, not as quick, but hard to kill.  Go back a step, do you have a body in mind?

I'm biding my time and looking for a good candidate.  Maybe a TR6/GT6/MG or an A-body Mopar if I can find one in decent enough shape and cheap enough for a Challenge build.  Not holding my breath.  I'd be open to suggestions, fwiw.

In reply to stroker :

I think if you're wanting to push your knowledge you should go with one of the more modern engines like the BMWs or MBs above.  Sounds like you want an older carbed engine to hit the easy button.

M20B27s were very different pre and post 1987. Pre is the sub 5k redline and post goes past 6k.

stroker said:

Humor me.  This won't make much sense.

Let's assume I'm wanting to start a project which I aspire to bring to the Challenge at some point before I tip over.  This would not be a serious effort to compete, just a test bed for learning various fabrication/maintenance skills (welding, riveting, engine assembly, bleeding brakes, etc.).  Let's further assume I want it to have a straight six engine, just because, and I'd strongly prefer a manual transmission.

I'm leaning to a Slant Six just because they're available as a unit with the manual transmission fairly frequently, cheap and reliable.  

Can The Hive nominate some straight six engine/transmission combinations that are inexpensive, reliable and available that fit my criteria?

The inline 6 cylinder used in Jaguars from  about 1990 through 2008? 
mall aluminum.  Available with a manual 5 speed transmission  4 valves per cylinder   220 horsepower unless supercharged when it went up to 300 plus horsepower. 
unbelievably reliable and capable of massive amounts  more with a simple turbocharger.  
   Plus it's a good looking engine.    junkyard prices are around $400-$600 ( a lot more for the supercharged one).    Easy to run off the factory ECU  or a  Megasquirt. 
   Me because I'm retro would fit carbs to it. Simple SU's.  

2JZs are getting hard to find and very pricey unfortunately. And forget a manual trans. 10 years ago it would have been an excellent Challenge car choice, but not these days. 

Keep in mind the Atlas 4.2 is dimensionally an enormous engine. It may not fit well under the hood of a small car. But it is quite durable and powerful.

In reply to frenchyd :

But how many factory manual transmissions are in the junkyard or even in the US?