Project Suggestions for a Newbie

I would like some expert advise on deciding a good car or truck project for me.

I have done maintenance and relatively minor repairs/upgrades (e.g., brakes, adding headers, leaf springs, etc.) on my vehicles all my life, but have never swapped or rebuilt an engine. I really have no need to do this, but would like to before I die if for no other reason than to make me a smarter and more experienced person.

Any recommendations on a cool project that would be challenging but doable as well as rewarding but not overly expensive?

I am open to just about anything, but would like to hear the reasons and rationale why it was suggested.

Thanks in advance!
Lutefisk

S-10. Cheap. Easy to work on. Easy to swap a V8 into. Haul stuff. Drag race. Can be made to handle. It's all been done, so you dont have to blaze a trail.

Well, what do you want your project car to do for you? 

Autocross?

Drag race?

Fun weekends?

Cars and coffee?

Off reading?

What are you into? 

... and where do you live?  The stuff I like has usually gone back to the earth by now and I can't go to New Mexico for a rust free car project.  I would suggest a decent runner and then tart it up or modify as time, money and skills come around.

I'm open to just about anything. To help narrow it down, I have no interest in track racing. I'd be more inclined to build something that could either drag race for fun (muscle car), off-road (like a Jeep), or a unique diesel swap (12V Cummins swap). It would be cool if the project included a supercharger or a turbo...only because it would be more experience. I have never owned or even driven a boosted engine. I'm not sure what cars and coffee is, but it would be satisfying to have it be unique enough that it sparks a conversation. I don't just want to replace a worn out 400K mile engine in a Camry and get it back on the road.

I live on the southern edge of the rust belt, so it is a factor but certainly not Minnesota/Wisconsin bad. I'd be willing to travel a little bit to find a donor car.

Have you considered buying a car that fits your application and then making changes so as to make it your own? 

The risk here is buying a bad car, but even that fits the need for a project as you sort it out.

Pete

suzuki samurai 

Lutefisk said:

I'm open to just about anything. To help narrow it down, I have no interest in track racing. I'd be more inclined to build something that could either drag race for fun (muscle car), off-road (like a Jeep), or a unique diesel swap (12V Cummins swap). It would be cool if the project included a supercharger or a turbo...only because it would be more experience. I have never owned or even driven a boosted engine. I'm not sure what cars and coffee is, but it would be satisfying to have it be unique enough that it sparks a conversation. I don't just want to replace a worn out 400K mile engine in a Camry and get it back on the road.

I live on the southern edge of the rust belt, so it is a factor but certainly not Minnesota/Wisconsin bad. I'd be willing to travel a little bit to find a donor car.

I'm a big fan of first projects being easy, fun and cheap. For me that meant avoiding rust (it's expensive and difficult to repair) and buying something with ample parts and support. Generally you're looking for stuff from the early 90's onward.

If you want a turbo/supercharger I'd stick to the 1/4 mile stuff because forced induction isn't really that useful in rock crawling. 

You may want to consider JDM stuff. Everybody loves a turbocharged civic and they're dirt cheap and easy to work on. With a D series Honda you can just lift the engine block out of the engine bay by hand...stuff like that makes them much easier to work on for a first timer. 

Lutefisk said:

I'm open to:

• I have no interest in track racing.
• I'd be more inclined to build something that could either drag race for fun (muscle car)
• off-road (like a Jeep)
• unique diesel swap (12V Cummins swap)
• supercharger or a turbo...only because it would be more experience.
• cars and coffee is, but it would be satisfying to have it be unique enough that it sparks a conversation.
• I don't just want..Camry

I just tried to restate your thoughts in an condensed format.   Working through those statements...

Do you have a real drag strip reasonably near your house?  Drag strips are going out of business faster than they are opening.  But, it's great if you are lucky to have a good one near, like less than an hour away.  Any farther and you might rarely go leaving you with a car who's purpose is never realized.  

Same question for off-road.  Where I live in Northern Ohio the only way to "off-road" is to own large land or "trespass."  Sure, there are a couple of "pay to play" private off-road facilities in the state but from me most are hours away or I could travel many hours to Northern Michigan also.  Is there easy access to "Off-Road" near where you live?

Turbo, SC or diesel...sure!  

Cars and Coffee is a car show brand that typically happens on Saturday mornings.  Could also substitute in any car show at a church or burger/wing joint parking lot.  If it was car show, would you want your car to be noticed mostly because it is quirky and like no one else's, or showroom perfect, or chock full of all the cool parts from all the cool catalogs?  Or, some other combination of those choices?

Whatever direction you choose, find something that has a lot of aftermarket support and an active online community.  You mention getting into Jeeps.  They made a million Wranglers, have aftermarket parts for anything you want to do, and several online sources that have already asked every question you may have.  Same with Camaros in drag racing and Miatas in autocross and road racing.  You're not going to get that trying to build an off roading BMW Isetta. 

These are all good points! There is a drag strip near me. I have never been there and have no interest in 'competeing' but it is at least a safe and legal place to try it out. I don't have any real place to go off-roading close by, but within a few hours drive there are many more options. I do like the suggestion of sticking to something with a lot of aftermarket support and a vital on-line community for advice and help. I certainly do not want to do anything that has not been done before or get stuck trying to source any unobtainium parts.

Affordability is also a factor. This whole endeavor is purely discretionary, so it can't cost an arm and a leg. However, I also don't want to polish a turd so I know it will cost me something.

I HATE rust. I don't have the emotional strength to deal with it because it is always 10x worse than you first estimate.

Sorry, but I just don't like looks of S-10 pickups. I might be convinced to try a Civic given some good examples of what it can do. I do absolutely LOVE Toyotas as a brand. Jeeps are cool. Camaros are cool...especially old ones. Miatas are small, but my wife would probably LOVE it (bonus points to get approval to do this 'for her'). 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are actually useful for me for towing and hauling.

I do want to do 'real' engine work though. I actually want that experience.

Lutefisk

In reply to Lutefisk :

You are speaking my language.  A cool car that will turn a few heads, you can work on it and learn, and do fun things with it.

The answer is GM malaise.  Specifically, G-body.  Monte Carlo, Malibu, Cutlass, Regal, El Camino, etc.  There are three things you need to tackle on those cars to make them great on the street:

1) Power.  With the exception of the super-expensive Grand National, they were all low-hundreds HP from super wheezy V6s and terrible V8s.  The good news is that they (regardless of the badge on the hood) all direct descendants of all of the great V8s of the muscle car era.  Muscle car V8s weren't as great as you think by today's standards, but every single one of them has amazing aftermarket support for as much power as your wallet can handle.  Added bonus is that GM was consolidating manufacturing processes, so all G-body frames are essentially the same.  Have a Cutlass car and a Buick motor?  Drop it in.  Have a Pontiac Grand Prix and a chevy 350?  Yup, bolt it in.  Want a 6.5TD in your Monte Carlo?  Buy the mounts and bolt it in.  Your G-body came with a THM200 trans and you want a 200-4r or a TH350?  Already drilled.  Have an automatic and want a T5 or T56?  You guessed it.

2) rear axle.  With the exception of the rare and expensive hi-power versions (GN, 442, etc) they all got the wimpy 7.5" rear axle.  They're fine, but once you get over about 300-350 torque and sticky tires, they like to explode.  There is no bolt-in swap (other than an expensive and rare 8.5" from the above hi-po versions) but again, aftermarket or some welding skills has you covered.  Pro tip... a Ford 8.8" is a corporate ripoff of a GM 12-bolt and comes in Explorers and Rangers.

3) if you want it to handle well, front suspension.  The fronts on these have really short spindles which makes a terrible camber curve.  Again, you can dig into the GM parts bin and fix that or the aftermarket has you covered.  If you're just drag racing every once in a while, leave it alone

Brakes are cake.  $20 brackets on ebay will let you bolt on front discs and calipers from a last-gen Camaro.  Hit up a junkyard for rear discs.  Chassis parts from GM in those years are practically mix-n-match.

S10 is a close second if you want a truck.  It's basically a G-body chassis with a pickup body.  Obviously not that simple, but close.

B-body is also a good bet.  Find yourself an Impala, Roadmaster, or Caprice and drop in whatever power you want.  Caddy 500 is an easy swap, too.  If you want really swanky, go D-body which is the longer B-body.  Think Fleetwood, Olds 98, etc.  Big, floaty, and heavy, but they already come with decent brakes and a much better front suspension.  Two years ago I autocrossed an Impala SS at the challenge and we won CAM class (full disclosure... we were the only competitor in CAM class, but it's a WIN)

The best part in my opinion about the malaise GMs is that parts are stupid cheap.  A reman alternator is $40.  A brand new power steering pump is $50.  Need a carb gasket?  I have about 20 in a drawer in my garage.  Water pumps are $20.

Another outlier (although I'm not a fan) is to find any Fox body Ford - Mustang, Fairmont, Thunderbird of a similar malaise 80s version.  They are much like the G-body in that parts swapping is super simple.

Okay, to chime in off the Mr. LikeFist (yeah, I know I spelled it wrong) and Curtis answers...

My first car was a '77 Malibu Classic.  For the malaise era I am amazed at how few '73-'77 GM Colonnade Cars are represented at current car shows and automotive events. Sure the following year G-bodies were much lighter but that also makes them in more demand.  I think the Colonnades are highly overlooked (if you can still find one.)  

Also, with that "still find one" idea.  Chevy Novas are hot and typically command a premium price.  I think is largely because even when new, the Nova was a very disposable car.  Young dudes have been building them up (and subsequently crashing them for 40 years now.)  In the current market, $5k will buy you a Nova that you can not drive and have to trailer home.  But, The '75-'79 Cadillac Seville is sort of made off the same Nova frame.  But, being a lux car, people stored them in heated garages and kept them nice...even if it was never the nicest Cadillac ever made.  However, currently $5k will buy you a Cadillac Seville that you can drive home.    

Some inspirations I have found and saved the pictures of over the years.  

This black one was some classified pictures that I saved.  I like the mix of current Cadillac V combined with this ole car.

Start with a good  Seville body and you could swap in an LS Motor or diesel or turbo or SC

Real samples sourced real quick:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1245922996254155/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5cc44fbb-e71c-4153-a1fa-f20735914a51

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/6000046340052339/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5cc44fbb-e71c-4153-a1fa-f20735914a51

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/669635147919366/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5cc44fbb-e71c-4153-a1fa-f20735914a51

In reply to Lutefisk :

What about Air Cooled VW.   A Baja beetle could do most of what you want (except go really fast).  Or something like a Ghia or thing would be cool.  

Simple to work on.  Very easy to understand approachable motor to work on.  Huge aftermarket. Pretty affordable parts.    If you want to go crazy after you get the car setup there are Thousands of swap options for full engine swaps.  

nocones said:

In reply to Lutefisk :

What about Air Cooled VW.   A Baja beetle could do most of what you want (except go really fast).  Or something like a Ghia or thing would be cool.  

Simple to work on.  Very easy to understand approachable motor to work on.  Huge aftermarket. Pretty affordable parts.    If you want to go crazy after you get the car setup there are Thousands of swap options for full engine swaps.  

Dan is correct. Maybe the easiest platform to build and learn. So much can happen too, for example: that air-cooled flat 4 loves boost for some reason. Also look at Baja Class 11.

How to Keep Your VW Alive PDF version of the book that taught me aircooled VWs and a ton of what I know about internal combustion engines.

My wife bought the hard copy and started reading it for learning and fun (Muir writes well), she now wants a 1600 dual port to rebuild so she can get hands on experience with the book. She wants to build it for a future Karmann Ghia.

I had to Google the term 'GM malaise'. That is certainly an appropriate term. I was a kid (born in 1972), but those were the cars my family and I drove well into the 90's because it was all we could afford. My two biggest concerns are that they all seemed be be horribly low quality and, IMHO, they are fugly with a capital F. Well, except for the late '70s Camaro and Firebird, which would be spendy.

I know nothing about VWs. Are there some good examples of what can be done?

Puddy46 said:

Whatever direction you choose, find something that has a lot of aftermarket support and an active online community.  You mention getting into Jeeps.  They made a million Wranglers, have aftermarket parts for anything you want to do, and several online sources that have already asked every question you may have.  Same with Camaros in drag racing and Miatas in autocross and road racing.  You're not going to get that trying to build an off roading BMW Isetta. 

 

I would add , find something that is common in the junkyards ,  so you can get stupid things like door locks , electrical switches and other stuff  that  could stop you from driving it .....

And I would say a  S-10  size truck  is  simple enough  .

Lutefisk said:

My two biggest concerns are that they all seemed be be horribly low quality and, IMHO, they are fugly with a capital F. Well, except for the late '70s Camaro and Firebird, which would be spendy.

They are exactly those things.  The CamaroBird is equally low quality just a better looking low quality.  

My second car after the '77 Malibu Classis Coupe was a '76 Camaro LT-Type

It seem very popular than when guys go looking for a "classic car" they are drawn to what were the objects of desire in their formative years of 15-25 years old.  For you that would be '87-ish to '97-ish.  Lots of cool stuff in that era.  Japanese stuff was very cool then.  

You've mentioned Miata.  That really is the answer to most all things automotive.  The NA cars are '90-'97.  The NB cars are '99-'05.  The NC is '06-'15.  The ND is '16 to current.  

There isn't a bad one in the bunch but each are a little different.  There is a common phrase that as the cars progressed the newer models are better at being a "car" and daily driver but the earlier models were better at being a Miata.  

Infinite model support.  Engine swaps of all kinds...and the swaps are internet information supported.  Or turbo, or supercharger.

Lutefisk said:

 My two biggest concerns are that they all seemed be be horribly low quality and, IMHO, they are fugly with a capital F. Well, except for the late '70s Camaro and Firebird, which would be spendy.

 

We can no longer be friends  but you're allowed to be horribly wrong

John Welsh said:

It seem very popular than when guys go looking for a "classic car" they are drawn to what were the objects of desire in their formative years of 15-25 years old.  For you that would be '87-ish to '97-ish.  Lots of cool stuff in that era.  Japanese stuff was very cool then.  

You've mentioned Miata.  That really is the answer to most all things automotive.  The NA cars are '90-'97.  The NB cars are '99-'04.  The NC is '05-'15.  The ND is '16 to current.  

There isn't a bad one in the bunch but each are a little different.  There is a common phrase that as the cars progressed the newer models are better at being a "car" and daily driver but the earlier models were better at being a Miata.  

Infinite model support.  Engine swaps of all kinds...and the swaps are internet information supported.  Or turbo, or supercharger.

I am really not a fan of most cars of my 'formative' years. Plus, fuel injection is a beautiful thing.

[Sidebar: When and where I grew up it was considered disrespectful to own a 'foreign' car, but the fact is that they really sucked. Car technology and especially quality has gotten exceptionally better in the last 15-20 years (thanks to Toyota, Honda and other 'foreign' cars compelling that change). At one point my only real foreign car was a 2000 Silverado made in CANADA. My Toyotas were all made in America. I maybe put 1,000 miles per year on that truck, but I spent 10x more time fixing things on that than the Toyotas combined.]

Are there any good links to what can be done with a Miata? Are some years 'better' than others?

Lutefisk said:

My Toyotas were all made in America.

You seem to like Toyota-their sports car during the 80's and 90's was the MR2. Why not look at one of those? 

GRM is doing a series on a gen 2 right now: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1991-mr2-turbo/ 

I don't know anything about them, but one or two always show up at the Challenge, so they can't be all bad =P

The discussion of Miata years better than others is likely worthy of its own thread.  I'm sure the whole discussion has been had before but people have strong feelings on the topic and will be happy to share.  There is a general undertone of this entire GRM Forum that is just the discussion of Miatas and various iterations
I think a current "good value" spot is the NC Miatas

For me:  '76 Camaro, then '77 Malibu, then '83 VW Rabbit (not GTI but I wanted one!), then '87 Sentra, then '90 Miata.  I kept that same Miata for 29 years until a large accident took it off the road last summer.  

Edit: then I also owned a '88 MR2 SC and a '97 Nissan 240sx at the same time as the Miata.  
MR2 is a great choice!  

If you don't care about going fast and want something to work on and drive around for fun, maybe add little British cars to the list?

Some can still be bought for not too much money and, well, there will always be something to tinker with because old and British :P

You sound like a 3rd Gen F body or B body guy to me.  I'd be shopping those especially the later 80s ones.  I've always wanted an 86 or so Monte Carlo SS.