Projects versus enjoyment versus driving; a lamentation

I wanted a project. I had a little scratch, and two incomes, so I spent $1400 on a truck, thinking that I could spend a few thousand getting it perfect. So, seven years and $15,000 later, I have this: Pain and suffering but also a lot of fabrication and skill development. Nothing that I can drive, show off, or really "enjoy" in the classic sense. I didn't have enough money to buy something done, but had I put that $1400, and the subsequent $14,000 into a Vanguard fund, I would have enough to buy something like this Fast and already done. Am I better off? Maybe. Maybe not. I am dirtier, more tired, and at the end I'm going to have a vehicle that isn't really all that good at anything particular.

Had I bought something expensive, I would, at this time, be a better driver, a worse welder, a worse wrench.

Sometimes I doubt myself, but I'm obviously going to keep plowing through this time. Next time, who knows?

Don't doubt yourself at all unless you truly hate getting your hands dirty. You've learned a lot more than you recognize from that project. And that stays with you.

I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy doing the project vs driving the end result... I like both, which shows as a complete inability to leave anything stock, so the concept of a "stock DD" doesn't exist in my head. It'll always get things done to it here and there, even if it's never a "torn apart for months" kind of project.

I came to the realization many years ago that I like the idea of a project better than actually committing to complete one. I also greatly prefer driving to wrenching, and hate the idea of having thousands of dollars tied up in a car that isn't being driven/enjoyed/used at least weekly.

Any automotive project of mine needs to be something I can complete within a day...or maybe a weekend, max...and needs to remain functional the rest of the time.

I've also come to the realization that I hate washing/cleaning/detailing beyond driving through an automatic car wash, or the occasional self-wash when things get really cruddy. However, because of that when I've had a "nice" car I've been leery of driving it on anything but nice sunny days(with minimal bugs). So the car ends up parked a lot, which then makes me revert to my comment above - hating having the $$ tied up in a vehicle I'm not using.

It's a vicious cycle, I tell you...

PREACH ON, BRUTHA!

I'm in the exact same place with the E30. It's 90% done and I don't even want to look at it, much less work on it. Fortunately, I don't have as much time and money invested as you do, but mine is still significant, at least to me. I'm into an $800 car for thousands of dollars that I'd never get back if I tried to sell it, and I'm coming up on year #4 of no autocrossing, track days, drag racing, or anything else because I sold my last suitable vehicle in 2012 to buy this project.

So now I'm in a catch-22. I'm a fool if I don't finish it and drive it, because I have so much in it. But, as I said, I have zero motivation to do so. Especially in the winter. It's too damn cold out there.

it's a hard line to walk.

the impala was quick, pretty painless, LS swap and some new front sheetmetal and boom i'm driving it. fast forward to the coldest winter in years, i didn't have enough antifreeze in the mix, cracked stuff, car has been sitting for 2 years because i didn't have it in me to deal with fixing something that was "done" that i drove for 2 summers. i could have saved all that cash and bought something already "done" but it's hard to just hang onto cash for that long without the AADD catching the eye of a beautiful diamond in the rough.

Consider it school not so much work. How much would you pay for that kind of broad education. Vo-tech could never cover all the new things you've learned.

If you ever decide to sell the project you'll recoup some of the costs but you'll have that learned experience forever.

The next project will be that much easier.

You could think of it in a little different way: You only spent $2000 each year to learn new stuff and get what you want to drive. I am 15 YEARS into my project and it has only recently been fired up for the first time. It has moved with me four times, including one cross-country move. I have had it longer than I have known my wife. It was an idea in my head for at least 5 years before I started it.

Long story short, I love the process of getting it done and all the learning that goes with it, but I cant wait to drive it. My project works out to roughly $1500 per year, including tools/materials/parts.

I did hit a time when making time to go and work on it was a challenge, but I can now see the end of the build stage, and the start of the drive it and modify it stage, because no car project is ever really done.

After a ten year restoration, I never drove the Bugeye.

The MGB GT sits in the garage.

Done this enough times to know that I will never have as much fun with the completed Molvo as I am having building the thing.

I don't have a problem with any of this. I am in the hobby for the problem solving opportunities. And tool buying...lets not forget the tool buying opportunities

At some point, I want to wash it.

I guess the level of patience you must have has to be matched well with the amount of time you expect the project to take (multiplies by at least three) and the amount of dollars you have to spend (multiplied by at least four).

don't forget you've got the TunaTruck Fanclub

Frankly, I'm jealous. I'm kind of on the opposite end of you. Over the years, mostly before my kids were born, I spent tons of money on wild and crazy toys. FFR Cobra, Viper, Vettes, E-type w/302 and flame paint job, etc... They were already built, and what needed to be done I had a professional mechanic do because I didn't know how. Don't get me wrong, I loved each and every one of the cars and had fun. But I always wish I had learned how to wrench. I've tried several times to buy a cheap project and for one reason or another, it just hasn't worked out much...mostly due to lack of free time. But that's a bucket list thing for me, buy a cheap car, do even a beginners level of restoration and be proud of it. E36 M3, the LeMons truck in my avatar is sitting in my basement with no engine or trans, and I don't know enough to be able to do the work myself. I've started to learn wrenching some. Before I relocated, my buddy and fellow GRM guy Sonic taught me a ton, but I'm still nowhere where I wish I were.

Did it make financial sense for you? Perhaps not, but to me cars aren't about the investment of cash. It's the enjoyment.

Klayfish wrote: Frankly, I'm jealous. I'm kind of on the opposite end of you. Over the years, mostly before my kids were born, I spent tons of money on wild and crazy toys. FFR Cobra, Viper, Vettes, E-type w/302 and flame paint job, etc... They were already built, and what needed to be done I had a professional mechanic do because I didn't know how. Don't get me wrong, I loved each and every one of the cars and had fun. But I always wish I had learned how to wrench. I've tried several times to buy a cheap project and for one reason or another, it just hasn't worked out much...mostly due to lack of free time. But that's a bucket list thing for me, buy a cheap car, do even a beginners level of restoration and be proud of it. E36 M3, the LeMons truck in my avatar is sitting in my basement with no engine or trans, and I don't know enough to be able to do the work myself. I've started to learn wrenching some. Before I relocated, my buddy and fellow GRM guy Sonic taught me a ton, but I'm still nowhere where I wish I were. Did it make financial sense for you? Perhaps not, but to me cars aren't about the investment of cash. It's the enjoyment.

OK hang on. A few questions.

How old are you?

How did you get a truck into your basement?

My previous car-ownership history is pretty lame, so I only have the Lemons stuff, the one project in high school (fast-ish street/drag Camaro) and the truck on my repertoire of cool.

The age old struggle - do you prefer building or driving?

I find that I like both, but neither as much as some other people. Therefore, I keep my SVT focus (dd) 100% stock so I can go race it if I get the itch. And I also have a few really long term projects that sit for months and years at a time. I also find it hard to soul-search and determine what I actually prefer.

Now if only I could become a millionaire and actually spend time on both.

(note there are many other things in the car hobby that you could also prefer: organizing, oogle-ing, cooking - every race track needs chili, teaching, camping, etc)

I'm the opposite Tuna. I bought a cheap project and sank money into making it just plain drive first (the Javelin). So yeah, I've been able to actually go do things with it in the last 5 years, but I'll be brutally honest here for a minute, it's embarrassing. Here I am as a pretty good wrench, trying to race/enjoy/show off my "project", but because it's an unrestored rattle-trap, people in person think it's a total pile of E36 M3, and yes I've had that said right to my face dozens of times. I've been turned away from a car show and laughed at by people. It drives nice and is reliable, but people only equate the "finished look" with the quality of the car. That's a big reason why I want to get rid of it so much, is I know I'll never have the skills like you to make the body look nice, nor the budget to pay somebody else to.

At this point, if people are going to turn a car away and E36 M3 on it for not looking nice despite the work that's gone into it, they're not people I want to hang around. Most good car guys that aren't kids with Civics or old guys with stock Corvettes that have never seen north of 2000 rpm will appreciate if it looks good, but they'll be just as happy if it's put together well, gets used and looks like crap.

If there's one good thing about an immovable project, it's that it makes it that much harder to bring another project home. In the three years I've had Fegus it has kept me from buying 4 or 5 other cars. In fact, most of the time when you see a flurry of updates you can be sure I wanted to buy something else and directed that energy into incremental progress.
You did buy the derilict Honda though, so maybe you're not as smart as me.

Look at it this way. If you bought it done then you would be spending the same amount on strippers and beer. So stay home, get dirty in the garage and keep your marriage intact. This reasoning got me through a bunch of projects, and the wife never made a fuss.

I don't like big projects. I like planning, tinkering, and fine tuning.

My financial situation makes me buy big projects and do an ass load work to get them to that point. I also have add and a very busy and full life. There are times I'd rather pay someone and just enjoy the drive. However, the skills that the mother berkeleyer necessity has taught me has made it difficult to pay someone else to do something I know I can.

So right there with you.

I'm kind of in the middle. My one big project spent years in getting it to the street. I honestly liked the wrenching/learning new skills/figuring out how to mount an engine and trans somewhere they shouldn't have been, etc.

I loved driving it. What killed it for me was once I got it on the road it was incredibly hard to keep there. I had mentally prepared myself for taking an ungodly number of hours to get it running, but I lost it when it continued to take that to keep it running.

mazdeuce wrote: If there's one good thing about an immovable project, it's that it makes it that much harder to bring another project home. In the three years I've had Fegus it has kept me from buying 4 or 5 other cars. In fact, most of the time when you see a flurry of updates you can be sure I wanted to buy something else and directed that energy into incremental progress. You did buy the derilict Honda though, so maybe you're not as smart as me.

The Honda very quickly went from project to DD though!

Klayfish wrote: Over the years, mostly before my kids were born, I spent tons of money on wild and crazy toys. FFR Cobra, Viper, Vettes, E-type w/302 and flame paint job, etc...

Please tell us more. Cobra, Viper, Vette and E Type are all on my 'lottery money' list. What did you like about owning & driving them? Dislike?

I tend towards rapid project completion and turnover. Get project, complete project, race, sell, repeat. I learn stuff, but I always feel like I rushed too much and wasn't ambitious enough- I'm blown away by those of you who have the resolve to work on 5 year+ projects when I can't seem to hang onto most things for more than a year.

tuna55 wrote:

Klayfish wrote: Frankly, I'm jealous. I'm kind of on the opposite end of you. Over the years, mostly before my kids were born, I spent tons of money on wild and crazy toys. FFR Cobra, Viper, Vettes, E-type w/302 and flame paint job, etc... They were already built, and what needed to be done I had a professional mechanic do because I didn't know how. Don't get me wrong, I loved each and every one of the cars and had fun. But I always wish I had learned how to wrench. I've tried several times to buy a cheap project and for one reason or another, it just hasn't worked out much...mostly due to lack of free time. But that's a bucket list thing for me, buy a cheap car, do even a beginners level of restoration and be proud of it. E36 M3, the LeMons truck in my avatar is sitting in my basement with no engine or trans, and I don't know enough to be able to do the work myself. I've started to learn wrenching some. Before I relocated, my buddy and fellow GRM guy Sonic taught me a ton, but I'm still nowhere where I wish I were. Did it make financial sense for you? Perhaps not, but to me cars aren't about the investment of cash. It's the enjoyment.

OK hang on. A few questions. How old are you? How did you get a truck into your basement? My previous car-ownership history is pretty lame, so I only have the Lemons stuff, the one project in high school (fast-ish street/drag Camaro) and the truck on my repertoire of cool.

I'm 43.

My house is built on the side of a very steep hill...as in my front door is level with the street but the deck off the back of my kitchen is so high up that they had to use steel beams to support it. Hence, my basement is a walkout with 12' ceilings. I had them put 6' french doors as an entrance (I wanted a roll up garage door, but wife said no). There's a concrete "walkway" leading from my driveway to the basement doors...down a very steep hill. With the mirrors still attached, the LeMons truck barely squeezed in width wise. Once inside, the room is a roughly 20' x 20' square. Plan was/is to put a lift down there, but haven't yet because I just don't have time to work on a car.

I am firmly in the 'prefer to drive' camp. I appreciate all the work you guys do, some on longer timeframes than others, but it's something that doesn't appeal to me right now. With limited space, time, and money, I much prefer to get out and drive.

I have owned a few projects and sold them when faced with reality. A Taurus SHO had electrical gremlins and I had no experience troubleshooting that and no desire to spend money on it. My Alfa was running and driving but I knew I was not going to take on a HungaryBill depth of build in the next 5 years so I sold that. The Maverick I built with my dad back in high school was going to need a full restoration to stop the onslaught of rust and barely fit in my small garage, with which I am probably stuck for another ~5 years or so.

After struggling with motivation and funding and time for those projects, I ended up taking a small inheritance and buying a nicer Miata than the beat ones I had been DDing, a whole pile of parts, threw them all on in like 2 weekends, and spent the last 2 years getting more seriously into autocross after dabbling with daily drivers and borrowed cars for the 4 previous years. These have been the most fun 2 years of 'car stuff' since high school.

Now that my schedule has opened up - kid getting older, wife working evenings - I am spending 2-5 hours a week in the garage again and having fun, taking things at a reasonable pace. You could even call the second Miata a 'project' car but not really - must stay drivable. Nothing long term. I haven't even owned a car for more than 5 years, much less worked on a project that long.

I hope that, say 5-10 years on from now, when we plan to move, I end up with a large 2+ car garage and dive into a more serious project of some sort. But until then, having a project in the way that I don't quite have the money or time to do 'right' is more stress than fun. So I read about everyone else here overcoming big challenges and getting E36 M3 done. Like you, tuna. Impressive. But that won't be me for several more years at least.