Who can tell me which models/trim packages came with the 3.8 V6 in the late90s-2000s? Making a list of comfy capable daily/beater options since my commute might get longer and involve more freeway driving. The Escort is great for being economical and hauling crap but is decidedly uncomfortable over long distance.
you could get the 3.8 as an option in any W body after 96(lumina, regal, grand prix) and standard in all of the H bodies(lesabre, park avenue, olds 88/98/LSS, bonneville)
I think this wiki is accurate for all the models you would be interested in. Series II and naturally aspirated versions for best mpg.
For a commuter a LeSabre would probably be the most common and minimize the power options that can break.
And i believe monte carlos.
I know my Grand Prix I had was pretty comfy to ride in for extended periods of time.
Thanks, folks. I had a beat up Lumina LTZ for a couple years and loved it so that's where this idea is coming from.
you can pick up 04+ grand prixs for pennies on the dollar, I've seen them go for as little as 3K around here with high miles. Good ride and not a bad handling car for it's size.
a few dollars more can net you a series III car. The 3900 that replaced it isn't too bad either. My father went from a series II to a 3900 in Buicks and is getting 2 mpg better on the hwy.
I often see Monte Carlos selling very cheap, even cheaper than the similar Impala. I figure because on the used market, the 2 door has a very limited appeal. The 4 doors are bought up by people with a couple kids who see the value. The Montes are completely overlooked by those with kids and the elderly set seems to avoid the Monte due to the huge and heavy driver's doors.
So now I guess the question becomes: Would I rather rock a GM V6-mobile or go full cruiser with a Crown Vic/Town Car. This decision is a ways off but these are the things I think about when bored.
I'd prefer a 3400 powered anything over a 3800 powered anything. They make just about the same power, the 3400 is a heck of a lot easier to work on, and the 3400's main issue is the occasional intake and timing cover gasket. The 3800 eats intakes and intake manifolds (you find that out when coolant fills the lower manifold until it sloshes into one of the runners and hydrolocks a cylinder) and the F.U coolant tube and I remember doing water pumps every 30k and timing cover gaskets and the oil pan gaskets never stay dry for long no matter what you do. And it's a bunch heavier.
And also WTF GM WHY DID YOU MAKE IT SO HARD TO GET TO THE POWER STEERING FLUID ON THE 3800??? You need to grease up your arm to dig down behind the engine to get to the P/S pump. And then you have to rig up some sort of twisty funnel if you actually have to add fluid. Which you probably will, because GM is a leader in EPAS technology sicne they realized they can't make a hydraulic rack/lines setup that dosn't leak a lot.
But if you really want a 3800 powered something, because, I dunno, say your recent brain surgery went bad, or maybe you want something to drive while you are restoring your Biturbo, then it was covered in the second post - any W-body '96-up and ALL fullsizes. It was never in the J/N cars although the earlier Ns could have the 3.3, which was a short deck version of the 3.8. I don't have the numbers but I bet the Series II 3800 is the same deck height as the 3.3.
Knurled wrote: I'd prefer a 3400 powered anything over a 3800 powered anything. They make just about the same power, the 3400 is a heck of a lot easier to work on, and the 3400's main issue is the occasional intake and timing cover gasket. The 3800 eats intakes and intake *manifolds* (you find that out when coolant fills the lower manifold until it sloshes into one of the runners and hydrolocks a cylinder) and the F.U coolant tube and I remember doing water pumps every 30k and timing cover gaskets and the oil pan gaskets never stay dry for long no matter what you do. And it's a bunch heavier. And also WTF GM WHY DID YOU MAKE IT SO HARD TO GET TO THE POWER STEERING FLUID ON THE 3800??? You need to grease up your arm to dig down behind the engine to get to the P/S pump. And then you have to rig up some sort of twisty funnel if you actually have to add fluid. Which you probably will, because GM is a leader in EPAS technology sicne they realized they can't make a hydraulic rack/lines setup that dosn't leak a lot. But if you really want a 3800 powered something, because, I dunno, say your recent brain surgery went bad, or maybe you want something to drive while you are restoring your Biturbo, then it was covered in the second post - any W-body '96-up and ALL fullsizes. It was never in the J/N cars although the earlier Ns could have the 3.3, which was a short deck version of the 3.8. I don't have the numbers but I bet the Series II 3800 is the same deck height as the 3.3.
But they make such good noises. That's 50% of what I look for in a car 
Wait. Stop. Hold on now.
You PREFER the noise of the 3800 90-degree Buick V6 to the sound of the even-fire 3400 60-degree V6?
All the 60 degree v6s sucked until variable valve timing. That's basically where they come onto my radar. I've worked on too many of them and even after getting good at it i still hate the way they're put together.
3800s dont bother me at all. The 3.8 W-body is one of the best cars GM has built in its ~12 decades of existence.
series8217 wrote: Wait. Stop. Hold on now. You PREFER the noise of the 3800 90-degree Buick V6 to the sound of the even-fire 3400 60-degree V6?
How do they sound different? They're both even fire engines (Buicks haven't had odd fire street engines since 1977) and they both dump the front bank into the rear bank's manifold, killing all sound quality and making them sound like ass instead of like a proper six.
The 3500s and 3900s, some of 'em anyway, have shocking technology: The front bank gets its own pipe that goes UNDER the engine! They didn't get this until after the 3800's fate was sealed so they didn't have to keep artifically killing the 60 degree engines' power. 3800s got tube headers, 3400s had log manifolds, and the 3400 still made almost as much power... Sad really!
Cripes, this thread has me saying a Chevy design is better than a Buick one 
Knurled wrote:series8217 wrote: Wait. Stop. Hold on now. You PREFER the noise of the 3800 90-degree Buick V6 to the sound of the even-fire 3400 60-degree V6?How do they sound different? They're both even fire engines (Buicks haven't had odd fire street engines since 1977) and they both dump the front bank into the rear bank's manifold, killing all sound quality and making them sound like ass instead of like a proper six. The 3500s and 3900s, some of 'em anyway, have shocking technology: The front bank gets its own pipe that goes UNDER the engine! They didn't get this until after the 3800's fate was sealed so they didn't have to keep artifically killing the 60 degree engines' power. 3800s got tube headers, 3400s had log manifolds, and the 3400 still made almost as much power... Sad really! Cripes, this thread has me saying a Chevy design is better than a Buick one
You're right, both are even-fire. Only the earliest ones were odd fire.
The firing order on the 60-degree V6 is 1-2-3-4-5-6. The firing order of the Buick is 1-6-5-4-3-2. I suspect this leads to the extreme difference in sound. The 60-degree V6 makes a smoother sound with an emphasis on higher order harmonics. With the induction system opened up it even sounds a bit exotic. The Buick sounds like a typical big bore truck V6.
I'll try to find a better clip of the 3800 sound character but this is what I could find for now with similar exhaust systems:
3400: https://youtu.be/Pes4x-mS3nY?t=55s
3800: https://youtu.be/NI_MlB6vpL0?t=11s
I'm a 3800 fan boi and to me they all sound like raspy ass. The series II and III have a decent lope at idle and can sound downright mean with the right exhaust but give it any revs and it's just nasty. The only way I know of helping the situation is the unbridled screaming of an unmuffled Gen 5 Eaton M90 supercharger 
series8217 wrote: The firing order on the 60-degree V6 is 1-2-3-4-5-6. The firing order of the Buick is 1-6-5-4-3-2. I suspect this leads to the extreme difference in sound.
That's the same firing order but with the engine turned around.
In reply to Knurled:
I've never owned one, but, the 3.4, in my mind, has a solid reputation for eating head gaskets. It may just be in my mind but I seem to recall a very large number of those popping head gaskets.
Knurled wrote:series8217 wrote: The firing order on the 60-degree V6 is 1-2-3-4-5-6. The firing order of the Buick is 1-6-5-4-3-2. I suspect this leads to the extreme difference in sound.That's the same firing order but with the engine turned around.
Oops.
Hahahaha, now I feel like the firing order was a trick question I gave myself.
Well, I don't know why they sound different then.
BlueInGreen44 wrote: So now I guess the question becomes: Would I rather rock a GM V6-mobile or go full cruiser with a Crown Vic/Town Car. This decision is a ways off but these are the things I think about when bored.
I don't have a W-body to compare it to but my '92 Mark VII vs my '99 Crown Vic the Mark VII feels and sounds like it was slowly hand assembled, each piece lovingly fit into place whereas the Vic feels as if it was slapped together with hammers and impacts. The Vic has creaks, clunks, rattles and squeaks. The doors close with a tinny "clang". It's very beaterish and old truck like, which I dig but it's not embarrassingly haggard. The door lock actuators slam into either position like the bolt on a well worn AK-47.
The Lincoln is nearly silent and totally composed going down the road and the doors close with a muffled "whump".
That being said I have the Lincoln posted for sale since it just can't compete with the roominess, fuel economy (20 mpg in mixed driving with properly inflated tires.) and practicality of the Vic. That trunk... Plus I won't give a single berkeley when the Vic gets scratched, dented and rusty. The Lincoln is another story.
A friend has an early '00's Grand Prix that I've worked on and I didn't particularly care for it. I put struts on it (can't adjust the camber) and replaced some idiotic little plastic coolant tubes that were an unnecessary pain. You may be losing 1 or 2 mpg versus the W-body but I'd vote '98-'02 Crown Vic ('03-'04 if you want rack and pinion steering). The rear of mine dances around a bit when you hit a bump, the springs are soft and saggy and there's a bit of play in the steering but you can't beat them for the money, IMHO.
Also RWD V8. 
Panthers have the potential for decent fuel economy. Here's the log of a guy who AVERAGES mid 20's. He's surpassed 30 mpg once. That's per tank, not instantaneous, so he regularly gets beyond 30 mpg on the highway.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/em-fuel-log.php?vehicleid=8517
series8217 wrote: Wait. Stop. Hold on now. You PREFER the noise of the 3800 90-degree Buick V6 to the sound of the even-fire 3400 60-degree V6?
Something ain't right here
Ooops I was stuck in the odd fire mode.
For comparison here's an '02 Grand Prix:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/em-fuel-log.php?vehicleid=1275
Knurled wrote: And also WTF GM WHY DID YOU MAKE IT SO HARD TO GET TO THE POWER STEERING FLUID ON THE 3800??? You need to grease up your arm to dig down behind the engine to get to the P/S pump. And then you have to rig up some sort of twisty funnel if you actually have to add fluid. Which you probably will, because GM is a leader in EPAS technology sicne they realized they can't make a hydraulic rack/lines setup that dosn't leak a lot.
The power steering fluid fill is at the top of the engine on my DD LeSabre (upper left). Now the pump on the other hand..... And yes, they will ALL leak multiple fluids.
Stupid plastic heater core.
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