So one of the things I hate about racing is getting myself strapped into my car using my 5 point harness. Seems like I can never (quickly at least) get the harnesses all buckled up and pulled tight.
Do others have this problem or is it just me?
And has anyone found a harness out there that is easy to get strapped into?
I've thought about this a lot, especially now that I have 6 years of child car seat usage under my belt.
Child seats are essentially 5 pt harneses but they are also designed to be quick in and out. Perhaps there is some room to in(cough steal)novate...
How much do you want to spend? We use the Schroth Racing's Enduro in our race car. They're so much better than cheaper ones we've tried in the past. Some people have recommended the Crow endurance as working well but I've never used them.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:I've thought about this a lot, especially now that I have 6 years of child car seat usage under my belt.
Child seats are essentially 5 pt harneses but they are also designed to be quick in and out. Perhaps there is some room to in(cough steal)novate...
The trick is to do what is done with child seats - have another crew member buckle you up.
I've found a few things that make that process easier
Make sure that the belts are adjusted so that when loose there's enough length that you can flop them out of the way when you get in the seat. That keeps you from having to fish around behind your back and under your butt to find them.
Buy harnesses the pull up on the lap belts to tighten. I'm partial to these -> https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=OMP-DA0203-HL
Take the time to work out a system for tucking stuff out of the way ahead of time and then follow the same process every time. That also cuts down on the chances of forgetting a step.
As previously posted, driver shouldn't be doing any belting. When the driver gets in the car their arms should be up against the roof until it's time to leave, so the crew can handle all of the buckling duties. It's faster and safer.
I've seen belts attached to surgical tubing so they get out of the way when they're unhooked.
One thing I've seen for people that have sliders and don't really tighten or loosen the belts... when you are getting out, slide the seat back. When you get in, buckle up and slide the seat forward. Boom. Tight belts.
Keith Tanner said:I've seen belts attached to surgical tubing so they get out of the way when they're unhooked.
We use bungee cord.
In rally, 200 drivers and codriver unlatch between every stage and have to buckle ourselves back up on our own (no crew or helpers, and no sliders). I'm not understanding why this is (?) such a problem for road racers. We are all using the same harnesses and hans and everything. Or is the issue here driver changes with additional adjustments needed?
Well, there might be a little more time pressure in endurance racing. We used to practice driver changes for Thunderhill to get the new driver in and buckled up and with their head in the right place before blasting them directly into wheel to wheel battle. That last bit is important.
The OP never mentioned endurance racing so I am presuming they are at the track by themselves.
I have do this myself in both the Datsun and the the Formula 500. The Datsun has latch lock belts and the F500 has cam lock belts. I do everything up myself including the arm restraints in the F500.
In the Datsun I have preset place were I put the belts, this way when I get in I know exactly where they are. Additionally I loosen up the right side lap belt and the shoulder belts to a specific spot before I get out of the car so that they are ready to go for the next time I get in. Pull up lap belts are a must for me.
The F500 is a bit trickier; while the sub belt and shoulder belts are easy enough the lap belts are a bit of a pain. Basically I lay them flat against the cockpit sides and pointing forward. This took some practice to work out. I'm looking at possible putting some sort of velcro on the side of the cockpit and a small piece on the lap belts to keep them up out of the way but honestly it would only save 30 seconds.
Practice makes a huge difference as does pull up lap belts. When I got the F500 I spent close to an hour working out the most efficient way to buckle up.
In reply to Tom1200 :
Huh, my shoulders are trickier in my F500. They dont really want to stay put over the side of the cockpit so I am leaning forward and fishing behind my back a lot. I havent even tried putting the arm restraints on yet, I should do that.
I just have to throw in another thumbs up on the schroth belts. I love mine and I am frustrated when I get in another car with a different brand.
Tom Suddard said:As previously posted, driver shouldn't be doing any belting. When the driver gets in the car their arms should be up against the roof until it's time to leave, so the crew can handle all of the buckling duties. It's faster and safer.
And the other reason is that few drivers ever belt in properly.
In driver training, I'd always tell a driver to belt in the way he thought they should be, and then I'd take the belts and tighten them another bunch. When you do it yourself there is just a tendency to leave the belts looser than they should be to keep you from hitting things in a crash or rollover.
BTW, one of the reason we did away with Le Mans starts in local vintage racing was that too many people were emulating what you could often see in the old newsreels - the drivers leapt in, started the car and disappeared in a cloud of rubber smoke, leaving the seat belts for the next long straight, when they had time.
wspohn said:And the other reason is that few drivers ever belt in properly.
In driver training, I'd always tell a driver to belt in the way he thought they should be, and then I'd take the belts and tighten them another bunch. When you do it yourself there is just a tendency to leave the belts looser than they should be to keep you from hitting things in a crash or rollover.
This is true for infant seats too. I see far too many parents put their babies into a car seat with enough slack in the straps to fit their (the parent's!) hand in.
wspohn said:Tom Suddard said:As previously posted, driver shouldn't be doing any belting. When the driver gets in the car their arms should be up against the roof until it's time to leave, so the crew can handle all of the buckling duties. It's faster and safer.
And the other reason is that few drivers ever belt in properly.
In driver training, I'd always tell a driver to belt in the way he thought they should be, and then I'd take the belts and tighten them another bunch. When you do it yourself there is just a tendency to leave the belts looser than they should be to keep you from hitting things in a crash or rollover.
BTW, one of the reason we did away with Le Mans starts in local vintage racing was that too many people were emulating what you could often see in the old newsreels - the drivers leapt in, started the car and disappeared in a cloud of rubber smoke, leaving the seat belts for the next long straight, when they had time.
I agree that ideally there would be a crew member to do the belting but I rarely have that option when I'm racing my own car.
As far as tightness is concerned not only do they need to be tight for safety I want them to hold me firmly in place so I'm not using my arms or legs to stabilize my body. No matter how tight they are initially I almost always tighten them again after the race starts. I've had more than one flag person mention that they've seen me tugging the belts tight as I went under the flagstand.
This is true for infant seats too. I see far too many parents put their babies into a car seat with enough slack in the straps to fit their (the parent's!) hand in.
Not that babies shouldn't be tightened properly, but in general street car restraints let you move as much as is safe because the slowest deceleration is the safest one, but they're also not trying to keep you from bashing yourself into all the metal bars you intentionally surrounded yourself with. If you made a whole car just not bend (anyone remember the Death Proof movie car?) and not let the human inside it move either, you could hit an immovable object at 30mph and die because it would be just like ramming your face into it at 30mph. The restraint of movement has to be targeted to do any good. If one wonders what effective difference there is between what is good enough to not kill your baby and what is good enough to not kill you, the main difference between a child seat and a racing harness might not be the seat/harness, but to what extent that arrangement has to protect you from all the other imperfect things you've implemented around it. Funny to think we could all be as safe as babies if we were just smaller (ie more space between us and hard objects) and centered in the vehicle. That would do more good than having to eat your wiggle room with bracing and then having to restrain yourself from hitting it because you've parked yourself at the edge of the interior because that's where you sit when you're leaving room for 4-5 other occupants? In your racecar? There is a silly amount of racecar safety practice that is catered more towards imperfectly adapting very good road-speed street car safety to the high-speed track, then there is actual best practice with regards to what would actually be safest if you were starting from scratch. The tightness of belts has to be taken in proper context, i guess you could say.
@APEowner I do much the same.
As for self tightening: on the lap belts I push the belt towards the feed side and pull on the adjuster strap at the same time. On the shoulder belt I actually use my forearm (wrap the belt against/around it) and push down. This gets them very tight.
Leaving your helmet off until you have your belts done up helps a lot with visibility. Doesn't work in a racing environment, but fine for track days/autocross.
ross2004 said:Leaving your helmet off until you have your belts done up helps a lot with visibility. Doesn't work in a racing environment, but fine for track days/autocross.
I'm only 5'9" and I can't think of any cars with roofs that I've raced where I could put my helmet on in the car after belting in.
The biggest issue I have dealt with is the direction that the straps pull. We've got Pyrotech belts that are easy enough to do alone but most importantly the laps pull across so you can tighten them up easily alone. On the other car we have a different brand(can't remember) that are also easy to latch but they tighten by pulling away from your body. You have no leverage to tighten them yourself that way. I'm also one to give my belts a tug going down the straights and the easier the better.
In the Datsun I do the belts with the helmet on, my Arai helmet bonks against the mirror or roof otherwise.
in the F500 I put the helmet in a very specific place because as I often done in single seaters I do everything up and then realize I can no longer reach the helmet or gloves. I rest the helmet partially on the steering wheel and partially on the nose. I fold the gloves over the lower part of the steering wheel. More than once I've had to frantically wave to someone to and me my gloves.
I have the teamtech harnesses and I find that because they are attached at the chest they tend to stay tight for me and are easier to lock in place.
Add in the big loops and even with gloves I can tighten myself down if required even while moving. I think its the shoulder belts being locked together that keeps things from moving around. They are not terrible in terms of cost ~500$give or take per set.
Keith Tanner said:Well, there might be a little more time pressure in endurance racing. We used to practice driver changes for Thunderhill to get the new driver in and buckled up and with their head in the right place before blasting them directly into wheel to wheel battle. That last bit is important.
I enduro race so I am aware of that. However the OP did not specify endurance racing, I was just making a general comment. I definitely have track day friends who complain constantly about getting their harnesses on even though they only have to do it once or twice throughout the whole day
I usually race without crew and have the same problem. Switching to the new model GForce 6-point harnesses has helped. They have these red loops that are easy to grab with gloves, and the lap belts tighten when you pull up (which, as APEowner and Tom1200 have are pointed out, are much easier to tighten than pull down lap belts).
I also make it a point to loosen the belts completely before getting out of the car. The extra slack on the belts makes it easier to find and clip all four ends into the camlock, especially if I'm already wearing my helmet and H&N device.
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