Quickest/Easiest four cylinder at 350 hp for typical challenge motor money

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare!

I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power.

I'll think about it.

No problem Ive done a few 2.4s and its great the power they can make. If you decide to go this route there are some other things I can tell you to get a little more power.

Y'all have got to stop. I have designed three challenge cars, re-powered my RX-7 and the Abomination and damn near crashed the local craigslist server since this thread has started. Please for the love of my wallet, please stop.

Just kidding. There is some great info in here. Thanks for sharing.

tuna55 wrote:

turboswede wrote: Engine management from 89-90 is reprogrammable via the T-D community. Late 91 and 92 the EFI switched to sequential injection and it hasn't been cracked.

Does this mean that I am grabbing wires and ECU from the donor car?

You can. It is all encased under the hood and the stock air box draws through the computer housing.

MegaSquirt works well on these motors, but the stock system has built-in knock sensing and the stock ignition system works well to upwards of 300hp.

Replicating the stock system with MegaSquirt would require a lot of add-on bits and extra tuning. The plus side being that MS is perhaps a bit more well documented/adaptable.

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!!

What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!! What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

Megasquirt, HKS PFC Fcon if you can find one, RX7 460s + FMU setup, or 370-390cc injectors on stock ecu with a hacked VAF.

I gathered we are talking about injectors from an RX7 with whatever an "FMU" is. What's a "VAF" and how does one hack it? What's a HKS PFC Fcon?

Basically, what do I need to run the F2T other than the engine? Also, what do the H type transmissions you spoke about show up in?

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!! What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

Megasquirt, HKS PFC Fcon if you can find one, RX7 460s + FMU setup, or 370-390cc injectors on stock ecu with a hacked VAF. I gathered we are talking about injectors from an RX7 with whatever an "FMU" is. What's a "VAF" and how does one hack it? What's a HKS PFC Fcon? Basically, what do I need to run the F2T other than the engine? Also, what do the H type transmissions you spoke about show up in?

Oh my bad. "FMU" = "Fuel Management Unit." Basically it's a rising rate fuel regulator of sorts. More boost = more fuel pressure = more fuel.

VAF is "Velocity Air Flow Meter." It's similar to a MAF, used on the F2T. There's a spring in there that you can move to help "tune" crudely for different injectors. You can also make a stopper so it doesn't hit boost cut anymore.

HKS PFC FCon is/was an old piggyback tuning solution, probably the only ever made for this motor. Works quite well, lots of buttons, not the easiest thing to find these days. I have one, it'll be on the car for the challenge, within challenge budget, but it took some searching.

The H-Type transmission is the 5-speed found attached to any F2T. Wasn't used with any other motor. Mazda developed that transmission because the normal "G-series" transmission that was on the non-turbo cars just couldn't handle the F2T. They got shredded pretty quick.

If you're going megasquirt and like wiring, just make your own harness, otherwise, you'll want all the accessories, harness, trans, and ecu.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: ^You should.. uhh... give me a GRM hookup on that blown 3s you have for sale.

email me, evildky@yahoo.com

What's the deal on these options (2.2, 2.4, F2T, Ecotec etc) in terms of CV axles. I intend to drop the clutch with slicks and hook hard at this power level. What will take it? I've never modified CV stuff, can you just get bigger shafts? Stock stuff OK? Help.

I look at axles as the safety link in a FWD application most will last a few good launches without failing completely. GM Jbody CV joints fit inside chrysler axles and up the strength a bit. DSS axles are out there but very expensive new and used. 04-05 SRT4 axles are pretty strong and fairly cheap $50 from advance auto.

If you are looking into v6s the 3.0 Chrysler can make upwards of 450hp internally stock for awhile.

Are there any dirt cheap ways of strengthening those shafts? cut one end, slip on larger diameter tube, weld everything back together? Anything silly like that?

tuna55 wrote: Are there any dirt cheap ways of strengthening those shafts? cut one end, slip on larger diameter tube, weld everything back together? Anything silly like that?

I have a minumin of 400 timeslips from FWD Mopars and I've broken one CV joint. Keep wheel hop at bay and they'll last.

Pat wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Are there any dirt cheap ways of strengthening those shafts? cut one end, slip on larger diameter tube, weld everything back together? Anything silly like that?

I have a minumin of 400 timeslips from FWD Mopars and I've broken one CV joint. Keep wheel hop at bay and they'll last.

Cool. Does this go for all of these options? I will not have wheelhop, no worries.

tuna55 wrote:

Pat wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Are there any dirt cheap ways of strengthening those shafts? cut one end, slip on larger diameter tube, weld everything back together? Anything silly like that?

I have a minumin of 400 timeslips from FWD Mopars and I've broken one CV joint. Keep wheel hop at bay and they'll last.

Cool. Does this go for all of these options? I will not have wheelhop, no worries.

I can really only speak for the Chrysler stuff, but I've found them to be pretty stout. Don't get me wrong, parts have work out over time, but only once did a CV fail on me. Most I've used were factory turbo or V6 axles, but even the original TBI axles that are in the Aries now are withstanding 1.6-1.7 60 ft times dropping the hammer hard. (knock on wood!)

On the 2.2/2.5 they last longer if you don't wheel hop and you keep the CV joints in alignment with sturdy engine mounts.

In reply to turboswede:

I have yet to find a car that did not like that advice. I have found that stiffening the mount(s) perpendicular to the load will solve most WOT load issues and you can leave the other ones alone for NVH. Grassroots level DD mind you.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!! What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

Megasquirt, HKS PFC Fcon if you can find one, RX7 460s + FMU setup, or 370-390cc injectors on stock ecu with a hacked VAF. I gathered we are talking about injectors from an RX7 with whatever an "FMU" is. What's a "VAF" and how does one hack it? What's a HKS PFC Fcon? Basically, what do I need to run the F2T other than the engine? Also, what do the H type transmissions you spoke about show up in?

Oh my bad. "FMU" = "Fuel Management Unit." Basically it's a rising rate fuel regulator of sorts. More boost = more fuel pressure = more fuel. VAF is "Velocity Air Flow Meter." It's similar to a MAF, used on the F2T. There's a spring in there that you can move to help "tune" crudely for different injectors. You can also make a stopper so it doesn't hit boost cut anymore. HKS PFC FCon is/was an old piggyback tuning solution, probably the only ever made for this motor. Works quite well, lots of buttons, not the easiest thing to find these days. I have one, it'll be on the car for the challenge, within challenge budget, but it took some searching. The H-Type transmission is the 5-speed found attached to any F2T. Wasn't used with any other motor. Mazda developed that transmission because the normal "G-series" transmission that was on the non-turbo cars just couldn't handle the F2T. They got shredded pretty quick. If you're going megasquirt and like wiring, just make your own harness, otherwise, you'll want all the accessories, harness, trans, and ecu.

So if I megasquirt the F2T, are there any hot-ticket MAF type parts that people have done?

Found this, seems to be a good start. Pricey, though.

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/apps/n76/usdm-mazda-mx6-9092-f2t-mt.html

This thread has Formula Kludge Win all over it...

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!! What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

Megasquirt, HKS PFC Fcon if you can find one, RX7 460s + FMU setup, or 370-390cc injectors on stock ecu with a hacked VAF. I gathered we are talking about injectors from an RX7 with whatever an "FMU" is. What's a "VAF" and how does one hack it? What's a HKS PFC Fcon? Basically, what do I need to run the F2T other than the engine? Also, what do the H type transmissions you spoke about show up in?

Oh my bad. "FMU" = "Fuel Management Unit." Basically it's a rising rate fuel regulator of sorts. More boost = more fuel pressure = more fuel. VAF is "Velocity Air Flow Meter." It's similar to a MAF, used on the F2T. There's a spring in there that you can move to help "tune" crudely for different injectors. You can also make a stopper so it doesn't hit boost cut anymore. HKS PFC FCon is/was an old piggyback tuning solution, probably the only ever made for this motor. Works quite well, lots of buttons, not the easiest thing to find these days. I have one, it'll be on the car for the challenge, within challenge budget, but it took some searching. The H-Type transmission is the 5-speed found attached to any F2T. Wasn't used with any other motor. Mazda developed that transmission because the normal "G-series" transmission that was on the non-turbo cars just couldn't handle the F2T. They got shredded pretty quick. If you're going megasquirt and like wiring, just make your own harness, otherwise, you'll want all the accessories, harness, trans, and ecu.

So if I megasquirt the F2T, are there any hot-ticket MAF type parts that people have done?

If you megasquirt it, you should be using a GM IAT, sensor, and not using an AFM/MAF/VAF/whatever you want to call it.

heres the 4g63 recipe http://www.buschurracing.com/dsm-stage0.htm

What about a honda K24 with a K20 head on top? Add compression and cams and before long you're at 300whp.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

BoneYard_Racing wrote: Another vote for Chrysler 2.4 here. other useful things

Hey, that's perfect. Thanks for sciencing that out for me. Now if only I could figure out what Ben's alphabet soup is all about with the Mazda choices I could compare! I drive a PT Cruiser now. Weird to think of the same (ish) motor making that kind of power. I'll think about it.

LOL!!! What needs to be defined? Sorry, i'm really bad about that, i speak fluent engine code stuff.

Megasquirt, HKS PFC Fcon if you can find one, RX7 460s + FMU setup, or 370-390cc injectors on stock ecu with a hacked VAF. I gathered we are talking about injectors from an RX7 with whatever an "FMU" is. What's a "VAF" and how does one hack it? What's a HKS PFC Fcon? Basically, what do I need to run the F2T other than the engine? Also, what do the H type transmissions you spoke about show up in?

Oh my bad. "FMU" = "Fuel Management Unit." Basically it's a rising rate fuel regulator of sorts. More boost = more fuel pressure = more fuel. VAF is "Velocity Air Flow Meter." It's similar to a MAF, used on the F2T. There's a spring in there that you can move to help "tune" crudely for different injectors. You can also make a stopper so it doesn't hit boost cut anymore. HKS PFC FCon is/was an old piggyback tuning solution, probably the only ever made for this motor. Works quite well, lots of buttons, not the easiest thing to find these days. I have one, it'll be on the car for the challenge, within challenge budget, but it took some searching. The H-Type transmission is the 5-speed found attached to any F2T. Wasn't used with any other motor. Mazda developed that transmission because the normal "G-series" transmission that was on the non-turbo cars just couldn't handle the F2T. They got shredded pretty quick. If you're going megasquirt and like wiring, just make your own harness, otherwise, you'll want all the accessories, harness, trans, and ecu.

So if I megasquirt the F2T, are there any hot-ticket MAF type parts that people have done?

If you megasquirt it, you should be using a GM IAT, sensor, and not using an AFM/MAF/VAF/whatever you want to call it.

yup... only bother with the afm/maf/vaf if you plan on going with a plug n play system where you want to easily go back to stockish...

use the MS built in MAP if you are wiring up your own thing... hardest part of that is figuring out ignition stuff and tuning...

red5_02 wrote: What about a honda K24 with a K20 head on top? Add compression and cams and before long you're at 300whp.

Nice idea, but that motor build alone would kill a challenge budget.

^ yup. That's why k-series is totally out imo.