Rallycross car for my Dad: Central FL Content

I've been racing my MR2 and my dad has gotten the bug. Looking for cheap, strong, RWD or AWD. Manual preferred easy to fix. I've been seeing tons for '90s Thunderbirds for less than $800 running driving even with working A/C. I know it mostly a mustang with irs. This seems like a fine cheap platform for what we want although they are all automatic.

Any reason I'm crazy, any other vehicles in central FL that would be better. I have seen Spinouts SVX and it is sooo tempting but I think the parts prices and complication of the SVX put it into crazy person territory.

Turbo Coupe Thunderbirds were offered with manual (and Cougar too)

John Welsh wrote: Q45 with manual swap

FTFY

RWD, Manual, Cheap, Easy to Fix...well, you didn't say if you care about being competitive or just want to have fun and goof around. I'll assume you also want to be competitive, or at least somewhat. So here's my list:

The usual suspects (arguably from cheapest to most $$ though it varies). Note that my opinions on the cars are either firsthand or secondhand, having done this for 6-7 years now and having raced against friends who have all of them for much of that time. YMMV, of course. These are my perceptions.

• Volvo 240 (cheap, very strong, easy to work on, easy to find junkyard parts, ok aftermarket, and can be fairly competitive). Can haul all your gear in the car with ease, plus a couple buddies. Fairly easy to find M/T.

• BMW e30 (cheapish especially if you do an early 318 or ETA, very strong, easy to work on, fairly easy to find junkyard parts, huge aftermarket, very competitive with minimal modss). Can haul all your gear and wheels basically just in the trunk....very easy to find M/T

• BMW e36 (cheap, especially 318 non-Ti models, fairly strong (though they need reinforcement in a few key places to hold up well, junkyard parts easy to find, big aftermarket, very competitive with minimal mods). Can haul all your gear, wheels, etc in the car with ease. Very easy to find M/T

• RX7 (either generation). Pretty cheap, fairly strong, junkyard parts not bad, decent aftermarket, and can be very compeititive with minimal mods (especially FC). Easy to carry all your tires and gear. Downside of course is rotary, unless you like rotary, in which case that's an upside!

• Miata (not quite as cheap with hardtop in most cases, but still pretty cheap, pretty strong, jy parts fairly available, huge aftermarket, very competitive with minimal mods). Not for tall people. Hard to haul your wheels and gear in some cases, especially if there's two of you going. M/T easy.

• MR2. Probably the least cheap in good running condition at this point (2nd gen), 1st gen cheaper. Not quite as strong (from what I've seen, but YMMV), jy parts not easy to come by, decent aftermarket. Hauling your tires and gear in the car itself is a major issue. 2nd gen can be very competitive with minimal mods. 1st gen less so, but still decent. Comes in M/T..

Now, if you don't care about being competitive, all kinds of random stuff opens up (i.e. Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic, 1st gen Supra/Celica, XR4Ti, and the list goes on. Most of the American RWD stuff certainly is pretty stout, huge junkyard parts availability, cheap as dirt to buy-in. Most of them will not be competitive in anywhere near stock setup.

Small pickups (Mighty Max, B2300, etc) - cheap, fun, easy to haul all your gear, kind-of competitive with minimal modding (but not really, usually)...

YMMV on all that, of course. But look at the large regions and nationals in all RWD classes and pretty much all the top half of the competition field are driving one of those cars. There's not a ton of mystery to it unless you want to spend more (like BRZ or something) or are going to heavily modify it (in which case all bets are off).....

For AWD....just get an old Impreza or Forester as the easy button and call it a day. Running a Subaru will probably cost more in the long run than most RWD cars. And you can be competitive if you're a good driver perhaps, though you have to run against GC 2.5s, WRXs, etc...soooooo. There is that.

irish44j wrote: RWD, Manual, Cheap, Easy to Fix...well, you didn't say if you care about being competitive or just want to have fun and goof around. I'll assume you also want to be competitive, or at least somewhat. So here's my list: The usual suspects (arguably from cheapest to most $$ though it varies). Note that my opinions on the cars are either firsthand or secondhand, having done this for 6-7 years now and having raced against friends who have all of them for much of that time. YMMV, of course. These are my perceptions. - Volvo 240 (cheap, very strong, easy to work on, easy to find junkyard parts, ok aftermarket, and can be fairly competitive). Can haul all your gear in the car with ease, plus a couple buddies. Fairly easy to find M/T. - BMW e30 (cheapish especially if you do an early 318 or ETA, very strong, easy to work on, fairly easy to find junkyard parts, huge aftermarket, very competitive with minimal modss). Can haul all your gear and wheels basically just in the trunk....very easy to find M/T - BMW e36 (cheap, especially 318 non-Ti models, fairly strong (though they need reinforcement in a few key places to hold up well, junkyard parts easy to find, big aftermarket, very competitive with minimal mods). Can haul all your gear, wheels, etc in the car with ease. Very easy to find M/T - RX7 (either generation). Pretty cheap, fairly strong, junkyard parts not bad, decent aftermarket, and can be very compeititive with minimal mods (especially FC). Easy to carry all your tires and gear. Downside of course is rotary, unless you like rotary, in which case that's an upside! - Miata (not quite as cheap with hardtop in most cases, but still pretty cheap, pretty strong, jy parts fairly available, huge aftermarket, very competitive with minimal mods). Not for tall people. Hard to haul your wheels and gear in some cases, especially if there's two of you going. M/T easy. - MR2. Probably the least cheap in good running condition at this point (2nd gen), 1st gen cheaper. Not quite as strong (from what I've seen, but YMMV), jy parts not easy to come by, decent aftermarket. Hauling your tires and gear in the car itself is a major issue. 2nd gen can be very competitive with minimal mods. 1st gen less so, but still decent. Comes in M/T.. Now, if you don't care about being competitive, all kinds of random stuff opens up (i.e. Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic, 1st gen Supra/Celica, XR4Ti, and the list goes on. Most of the American RWD stuff certainly is pretty stout, huge junkyard parts availability, cheap as dirt to buy-in. Most of them will not be competitive in anywhere near stock setup. Small pickups (Mighty Max, B2300, etc) - cheap, fun, easy to haul all your gear, kind-of competitive with minimal modding (but not really, usually)... YMMV on all that, of course. But look at the large regions and nationals in all RWD classes and pretty much all the top half of the competition field are driving one of those cars. There's not a ton of mystery to it unless you want to spend more (like BRZ or something) or are going to heavily modify it (in which case all bets are off)..... For AWD....just get an old Impreza or Forester as the easy button and call it a day. Running a Subaru will probably cost more in the long run than most RWD cars. And you can be competitive if you're a good driver perhaps, though you have to run against GC 2.5s, WRXs, etc...soooooo. There is that.

That was a great response! Thanks for taking the time to give such detail..

I assure you, totally canned at this point. I think between me, Evan, and Pete we've probably replied to 100 of these threads on GRM haha....

EDIT: Also, it's friday night and apparently I have no social life lol...

btw, central florida craigslist seriously sucks. I can't even find a single Volvo 240 under $2500, any decent BMWs under $2500, any RX7s other than a race car under $2500....WTF!? All of those cars are a dime a dozen up here!

Go troll Atlanta CL....it's the treasure trove down your way :)

I've got an AW11 that I compete in its super great fun. Sub 1k in running condition most of the competitive stuff is out. Luckily we don't terribly care about being super competitive. Mostly making sure that none of the real cheap american iron stuff doesn't have some hidden demon that would make it more hassle than fun.

irish44j wrote: btw, central florida craigslist seriously sucks. I can't even find a single Volvo 240 under $2500, any decent BMWs under $2500, any RX7s other than a race car under $2500....WTF!? All of those cars are a dime a dozen up here! Go troll Atlanta CL....it's the treasure trove down your way :)

Holy crap you're right There is stuff that that is almost 1/2 what it would be here. I might have to start trolling up that way.

this checks all your boxes:

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/6068219764.html

put a $200 clutch kit in it (actually they're less than $150 on rockauto, but it may just need a master or slave cylinder...), and you have a very competitive car out of the box. Not all that pretty, but if this was local, it would probably be at our next rallycross with somebody...especially since it's unlikely to be rusty down there....hell, if I was starting a rallycross or stage build right now, that is basically the exact car I would start with.

btw, those seats could be sold for $4-500 pretty easily. Same ones we have in our stage rally car and appear to be in good shape.

And also, pretty much any e30/e36 engine will drop right into that car (and M42/M44 replacements are a dime a dozen....I have an extra sitting in my garage right now lol).

Recognizing you don't really need much power to be competitive or successful, and based on costs, ease of repair and modification, and parts availability, here's my list:

e30 or e36

Fox body, SN95, or New Edge Mustang (4 cyl Fox isn't a bad choice... Lima is durable and mega easy and cheap to fix)

Ford Ranger or Nissan Hardbody

Miata (though getting a hard top will cost extra $$$)

<ten year old, naturally aspirated, AWD Subie

Hope this helps, and good luck! Hope to meet you at an event this year.

tempted by this. '88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 5spd. craigslist ad

Fuel pump and pull the tank to clean it up and it should be good to go.

IDK, when someone says it would be perfect for a parts car, that usually means that it'll cost you 3 times the purchase price to make it actually decent to drive, lol....

That would be entertaining to watch on-course, though. Those overhangs are extreme :)

Miata with Hardtop CL ad

This has my attention. Any ideas on what the frame has rust can mean. I don't see much under the hood or in the sills although I guess every body panel can be 80% bondo. I don't mind the warped head we can get that worked out. Just the rust part has me worried. Still in FL if people see a bit of surface rust on a brake rotor they freak out.

Maniac0301 wrote: Miata with Hardtop CL ad This has my attention. Any ideas on what the frame has rust can mean. I don't see much under the hood or in the sills although I guess every body panel can be 80% bondo. I don't mind the warped head we can get that worked out. Just the rust part has me worried. Still in FL if people see a bit of surface rust on a brake rotor they freak out.

$1k Miata + engine + tires and you're at maybe $2500?

Can't see much rust in the ad, unless that is rust on the driver's floor showing through the carpet. I'm not a Miata expert, though. Everyone else here is, lol.

irish44j wrote:

Maniac0301 wrote: Miata with Hardtop CL ad This has my attention. Any ideas on what the frame has rust can mean. I don't see much under the hood or in the sills although I guess every body panel can be 80% bondo. I don't mind the warped head we can get that worked out. Just the rust part has me worried. Still in FL if people see a bit of surface rust on a brake rotor they freak out.

$1k Miata + engine + tires and you're at maybe $2500? Can't see much rust in the ad, unless that is rust on the driver's floor showing through the carpet. I'm not a Miata expert, though. Everyone else here is, lol.

Looks like a great deal. I'd jump on it unless you've got your heart set on an E30/E36. When a Miata is rusty, the first place you see it is almost always in the rocker area in front of the rear tires. I'm not seeing anything, so unless the car has 30 lbs of bondo in the rockers, you should be in decent shape.

Don't you still have the Isuzu Rally car your dad could drive?

That or go get this Miata now:

Miata ended up going for higher than asking price which put it beyond what we wanted to spend on a car that isn't running. I'm sure its a great deal but budget is budget. Going tonight to look at this Mustang. Base 6cyl car with manual. CL Ad Mustang

irish44j wrote: ...Now, if you don't care about being competitive, all kinds of random stuff opens up (i.e. Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic,...

Hey now, I placed 1st in SR at the last rallycross in a P71 on summer tires. It was a blast! I even managed to beat out the Miata that was running.

That's kind of my thought it seems in Rallycross unless you're at the top of the national food chain the vehicle isn't that huge of a deal. Much more about driver ability and in some ways not caring about what kind of pain you are inflicting on the car. The basic idea is rallcross = fun especially in RWD so get to the point of fun as cheaply as possible and with a vehicle that is least likely to break meaning you miss out on more fun.

Toyman01 wrote:

irish44j wrote: ...Now, if you don't care about being competitive, all kinds of random stuff opens up (i.e. Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic,...

Hey now, I placed 1st in SR at the last rallycross in a P71 on summer tires. It was a blast! I even managed to beat out the Miata that was running.

Last time out at an autocross in the rallycross car, I beat over 100 other cars (including 8 or 10 Miatas). There are a lot of bad drivers out there, haha...because the rallycross car is awful on a parking lot

So we ended up taking home the '01 Mustang. It seems to actually be in decent shape. Clear coat is peeling and the drivers seat is collapsed. There's a clunk in the rear end and the bushings on the shifter are shot. Other than that it runs and drives well, A/C works, all the power options work. I'm pretty surprised at how nice it actually is for a sub $1000, 16 year old, base model Ford with 200k miles.