Would this or anything similar be legal for the new open class in rallyx? I know it would need a 6 cylinder or turbo four, and it would need some more ground clearance and suspension travel to make it through the course. That seems easy enough. Is this the easy button?
Just going down the rules list...
Engine limit is 4cyl.
Not sure how that cage stacks up, but I'm 99% sure it would exceed IT cage requirements.
Probably needs a scattershield.
Needs mud flaps or fenders to cover 1/2 circumference of tire.
Roof skin probably meets rules, but if not is easily fixed provided they didn't drill into cage.
10 second egress might be a challenge.
Do it.
Seems that the rules contradict themselves?
ARTICLE 3 VEHICLE CATEGORIES AND PREPARATION ALLOWANCES
3.1 ELIGIBLE VEHICLES (Mandatory for all SCCA sanctioned RallyCross events. See Article 2.1)
A RallyCross event is open to any fixed-roof, four-wheeled, mass-produced passenger vehicle (including convertibles with a factory hardtop attached, targa-types with factory panel in place, t‐tops with factory panels in place) that can pass safety inspection. This includes electric and hybrid vehicles, convertibles with a factory hardtop attached, targa types with factory panel in place, and t-tops with factory panels in place. A vehicle that meets the definition above but was not originally sold in the United States (e.g. Canada, Japan/JDM or Europe-only vehicle) is eligible if it meets applicable safety and preparation allowance requirements. If the Event Chairman after consultation with the Event Safety Steward determines at his discretion that a vehicle cannot safely negotiate the course, it may be excluded. The following types of vehicles are currently not eligible to compete: ATVs, UTVs, sidebysides, Trophy Trucks, Crosskarts, Formula Cross, and Legend cars and tube‐frame vehicles.
F. Constructors Category
Constructors Two Wheel Drive (C2)
Constructors All Wheel Drive (C4)
Preparation allowances:
1. The Constructors Category is intended for four-wheeled vehicles altered in excess of the Modified Category allowances, such as dune buggies, sand rails, tube frame/chassis vehicles, kit cars and similar types of custom-built vehicles.
^See page 19 of the rules. He's talking about the new open category.
F. Open Category
Open Two Wheel Drive (O2)
Open All Wheel Drive (O4)
Preparation allowances:
1. The Open Category is intended for four-wheeled vehicles altered in excess of the Modified Category allowances, such as dune buggies, sand rails, tube frame/chassis vehicles, kit cars and similar types of custom-built vehicles
ProDarwin said:^See page 19 of the rules. He's talking about the new open category.
F. Open Category
Open Two Wheel Drive (O2)
Open All Wheel Drive (O4)
Preparation allowances:
1. The Open Category is intended for four-wheeled vehicles altered in excess of the Modified Category allowances, such as dune buggies, sand rails, tube frame/chassis vehicles, kit cars and similar types of custom-built vehicles
Edited. Seems like they need a second draft so one section doesn't say you can't but another says you can.
I think you could definitely get that into C2 with a bit of work. If you go look at it, the things to consider would be the cage, how the skin is attached to the roof, and the height versus width. The rules do set a maximum height of 90% of track width. As ProDarwin noted, you would need to fab fenders for the front wheels.
Since the engine has to be an unboosted 4 cylinder, I'd recommend an Ecotec LE5 2.4L as gm made literally millions of them. They have a very good torque curve and make close to 200HP with a tune. The ECU can fully stand alone and is easily configured with HP Tuners. You can bolt them to a Miata transmission with an adapter from the Ecotec Miata guys.
FooBag said:Since the engine has to be an unboosted 4 cylinder, I'd recommend an Ecotec LE5 2.4L as gm made literally millions of them. They have a very good torque curve and make close to 200HP with a tune. The ECU can fully stand alone and is easily configured with HP Tuners. You can bolt them to a Miata transmission with an adapter from the Ecotec Miata guys.
I never really read the rules closely since they were published and didn't realize it had to be an unboosted engine. Who thought that would be a good idea?
I guess the same person that thought the rest of the rules for this class would be good...
In reply to EvanB :
I'll go back and look at the rules again. I thought it was na 6 or 4 cyls or forced induction 4 cyls, but I could be wrong.
From looking at the rules it says NA 4 cylinders or 2 rotors, no motorcycle engines.
I don't think its a bad idea to keep costs down*. Unless people go out and spend $$$$$$ on K series + BMW transmissions to make crazy power. Lots of manufacturers are offering 2.5ish motors that will hit 200ish whp.
* in 2wd.
In AWD, they need to allow for boost.
EvanB said:FooBag said:Since the engine has to be an unboosted 4 cylinder, I'd recommend an Ecotec LE5 2.4L as gm made literally millions of them. They have a very good torque curve and make close to 200HP with a tune. The ECU can fully stand alone and is easily configured with HP Tuners. You can bolt them to a Miata transmission with an adapter from the Ecotec Miata guys.
I never really read the rules closely since they were published and didn't realize it had to be an unboosted engine. Who thought that would be a good idea?
I guess the same person that thought the rest of the rules for this class would be good...
I would like to point out, at this point, that the Open Class was forged and thrust upon the world with 100% zero input from the rules committee.
Speaking completely unofficially, wearing my competitor hat, the Open Class regulatuions appear to have been extracted fully formed from a Mark 1 Human Sphincter, and I feel really REALLY bad for when the poor shiny happy prson in me has to weed through that mess IN an official capacity, because the way I read it, there's nothing that actually is legal AND able to navigate a course AND exists in the real world.
I'm going to need ALL the bourbon, if/when I go to Nationals this year.
In reply to Knurled. :
And I'm gonna have to hang out and drink alone while you're caught in rules bullE36 M3. But I'm not going this year so it's ok.
Yea open is a class without any idea of a vehicle.
MrChaos said:Yea open is a class without any idea of a vehicle.
The one thing that is definitely legal in open class: logbooked stage rally cars with 4cy engines. Frankly, with the mess the rules are with regard to "homebuilt" cars and whether the cages will pass muster, etc., the safe bet for that class is just to go find a retired stage rally car, super-lightweight it without all the stage gear, and run it. If we didn't have such an awesome MR class around here, I would consider running my 4cy e30 stage car in the class and just win championships by default, lol.. But since it'll be an empty class in most regions, that wouldn't be much fun. We're one of the highest-turnout regions in the country here in DC and so far I've heard precisely nothing about anyone in this area building a car for the C classes....even from the usual "GRM-type" guys who built all kinds of crazy stuff.
I'm still convinced that SCCA created it to fail, so they can just elminate the sand rail/dune buggy/UTV/etc questoins entierely, going forward for rallycross.
In other news, sounds like SCCA is going to start a new UTV "rallycross" series next year, where you can use off-the-shelf UTVs and stuff like that. This new series will NOT be part of the current rallycross program, though. It will have separate events and separate venues.
Yeah, all you sand rail Dune buggy utv guys can run in open class. Oh wait, no you can't. No powersport engines.
Pffft.
Rallyx needs an a-mod. Sure, make safety rules, but why limit your "open" class to no boost. What?!? And why are we trying to "keep costs down" in an open class? That's what the stock classes are for.
I was so excited for the open class, but none of it makes any sense.
irish44j said:In other news, sounds like SCCA is going to start a new UTV "rallycross" series next year, where you can use off-the-shelf UTVs and stuff like that. This new series will NOT be part of the current rallycross program, though. It will have separate events and separate venues.
Aka something that will likely have very little participation because rallycross is so small in most regions already. And here there are no less than 5 OHV areas in a 4 hr radius where they go anyway and most of those have race series for utv's anyway. Like ETRSCCA has Windrock, Carolina region has Uwharrie.
Also one could do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_MaC45JJFE a technically MA legal Beetle afaik. I mean it is a beetle body on a rzr 1000 but still is within MA rules i think.
Personally I think an Exocet sounds about perfect for open class.
I think a lot of people are very hesitant to do anything because if that class gets killed, most cars now have nowhere to run and cannot participate at all. Well, that and no competitors.
ProDarwin said:I don't think its a bad idea to keep costs down*.
Except it wouldnt. What's cheaper to build than an American v8?
gearheadmb said:ProDarwin said:I don't think its a bad idea to keep costs down*.
Except it wouldnt. What's cheaper to build than an American v8?
Any 4 banger economy car donor.
Robbie said:Yeah, all you sand rail Dune buggy utv guys can run in open class. Oh wait, no you can't. No powersport engines.
Pffft.
Why wouldnt a sand rail/dune buggy be able to run with the vw beetle engine?
ProDarwin said:gearheadmb said:ProDarwin said:I don't think its a bad idea to keep costs down*.
Except it wouldnt. What's cheaper to build than an American v8?
Any 4 banger economy car donor.
Yeah, that gets me excited about putting together a car for an open class.
ProDarwin said:gearheadmb said:ProDarwin said:I don't think its a bad idea to keep costs down*.
Except it wouldnt. What's cheaper to build than an American v8?
Any 4 banger economy car donor.
Or you could use a cheap 2.3T ford engine, or any v6, supercharged 3.8 from a buick. There are a lot of cheap options that aren't NA 4 cylinder or rotary.
And why are they trying to keep costs down in a class where you need a cage and it is designed for tube frame vehicles? If you want a cheap class just run in mod.
Knurled. said:
I would like to point out, at this point, that the Open Class was forged and thrust upon the world with 100% zero input from the rules committee.
Speaking completely unofficially, wearing my competitor hat, the Open Class regulatuions appear to have been extracted fully formed from a Mark 1 Human Sphincter, and I feel really REALLY bad for when the poor shiny happy prson in me has to weed through that mess IN an official capacity, because the way I read it, there's nothing that actually is legal AND able to navigate a course AND exists in the real world.
I'm going to need ALL the bourbon, if/when I go to Nationals this year.
Pete, are you on the RXB now? If so, thank you for your efforts!
BTW guys, the Open class is now Constructors; the name was changed last week, for better or worse.
At our event this past weekend, we had an IMCA Sport Compact car run in C2. Prior to him running, I had a discussion with an RXB member about how we actually supposed to handle the SCCA scrutineer requirement. The answer I got was essentially "we're not sure yet." In this scenario, since the car had already passed the IMCA tech this year and since the IMCA cage is close to/meets the SCCA cage requirements, it was suggested that I could allow the car owner to self-certify. We did a very thorough tech inspection to try to cover our bases as well.
Its rather silly, because as a safety steward, I am allowed discretion on choosing what height vehicles are allowed to race in all classes but Constructors as there is no hard rule on height to width. In theory, I could allow a Samurai or an Xterra to race and have far more likelihood of an incident occurring that injuries someone. Allowing an IMCA car with a cage to run in C2 because it doesn't have a windshield doesn't concern me at all
In reply to FooBag :
I thought the class had a track width to height ratio requirement. I’ll have to read the final rules. I kind of gave up when I saw the no V8 part, as I had been thinking a C4 Vettekart would be a fun entry, and relatively cheap.
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