Ran my first autocross today

The feel is a lot different from rallycross, that is for sure. I won't say it is less (or more) fun, but it is very different. I'm going to have to unlearn some of the things that rallycross has made second nature- basic things like turn in and breaking points.

I've also got less than 500 miles of total seat time in my RX-8 so far, so there is a bit of basic car learning happening, too, but I figured and autocross was a great place to do that, right?

The good news of the day for me is that I did get faster every run. That said, I still made some pretty obvious mistakes. One good takeaway was that by simply turning off the stability and traction control really let me feel how the car wanted to act vs. how the nannies thought it should be acting. I shaved off almost 2 seconds when I did that, but some of that might have been getting familiar with the course, too (the first run was a disaster). One thing that really bugged me is that I kept making the exact same mistake every time. I kept going into the last turn too fast and having to brake too much to shed enough speed to finish the turn and cross the finish line without demolishing a bunch of cones. After I did it the first time, I kept saying "Go slower at the finish" over and over again when I was staging, but I totally forgot in the heat of the moment and did it anyhow.

One thing that was very obvious to me is that the Kumho Ecsta ASX tires that I have on the car at the moment are not at all good for this sort of thing. They were squealing in protest on even the mild turns. I was talking to some of the others running RX-8s, and given the temperature (low 40s) they said that pre-heated up sticky tires were probably the way to go. I did see that several of the folks using summer tires were doing ziz-zags in the open area near the course before they staged. I have no idea how well it worked, but they were certainly faster than I was, but I'm betting more of that was skill vs. tire.

The stock suspension with 160k miles on it probably isn't helping either. I've got gently used stock springs and dampers for that, but I was unable to put them on before the event. Aside from tires, I'm going to keep the car completely stock until I've done more events. The car is going to be way better than me for a while yet.

The funny part of the day for me was this: Most of the novices and stock class cars were in the first run group of the day, and the times for the first few cars were all within 5 seconds of each other, since a horde of eager novices flooded the starting gate right at the start of the day. I finished my first run with a hair under 60 seconds, and knew I could get much faster (I shaved down to a 54.something on the last run) . I was driving back to the start when I heard over the PA that somebody had put in a time like 25% (or more) faster than mine. All at once I started to think that maybe I was in the wrong place and should instead take up basket weaving or something when I saw the car come back around the bus- it was a Lotus Elise driven by Jennifer Bedell- not a novice at all. However, the car had multiple drivers so she was running with the novices so that the everybody would be in different run groups and could race. When I told her what I thought after our group was done she found it very funny.

I'm going to try to make more events for sure.

As long as you had fun and started learning the car on the worst tires it can only go up from here!!

Last auto-x I ran with the RX8 there was a test and tune the day before and some of the event holders took a liking to my S2 and asked if they could take some runs, I had no issues letting them run because they were putting down damn good times earlier with their respective cars.

Now my best run of that day was like a 58 or something like that for all day nothing to be disappointed about on that course but the 1 run they both did (husband & wife team) was around 52, it takes time!!!

Good stuff. I autocrossed for 15+ years before I started rallycross, so I've had to unlearn just the opposite.

That said, this weekend I'm taking the rallycross e30 out to its first autocross. Full rallycross setup, except I'll have my street wheels/tires (Star Specs) on the car, and might throw on a bigger front sway if I get a chance.

I have to run in E Prepared....gonna get my arse kicked, but will be way more fun than running my light-STU prepped WRX, lol. I fully expect to have one of the slowest times in the entire field, especially since about half the cars signed up are Pro class, lol. I'm assuming I'm going to find it (again) not very much fun compared to rallycross (and way less seat time), but it's a good chance to test out how the new engine does when pushed :) Plus, I'm jonesing for some motorsports of any kind with rally-x season still 3 weeks away...

So much of getting good is experience. You fix your driving a little bit every time you do it. The big thing when you're starting is to have fun. if you're doing that then you're doing it right.
When I'm unpacking my car I always look around and see if I can find any newbies. It's amazing how much it helps them to have someone show them where registration is, and where tech is and what their work assignment means. Both of the guys I helped yesterday ran the same heat as I did so we checked pressures together and added some air and talked cars while we waited. If you love the sport, adopt a newbie at least a couple of times a year.

So you didn't come DFL? Better than me because I was DFL for at least a whole season when I first started autocross, and I already had a good bit of track experience at that point.

Now I'm a regular podium finisher. I hadn't done any rallycross before (in fact I still haven't unless you count hooning 4x4s) but the advice I would like to go back in time and give myself is "drive like a meth-head running from the cops." I was using a track driving style on the autocross course which was way too gentle and not frantic enough, but since you've done rallycross before you may not have that problem. People tell you to drive smooth and you should, but I think it's better to drive rough and fast and then work on smoothing it out than to make smoothness your primary goal.

Sweet. Here's to new experiences. I'd like to start running autocross and expect the same experience. Rallycross (especially with Clem Sparks teaches you some interesting habits.

Congratulations.

When I first started out, my rule of thumb was I wanted a 10% reduction from my first to my best run. Initially, figuring out the basic layout of the course and how to approach it was still a bit of a black art, so I'd take my first run faster than a "Sunday drive", but still slow enough that I wasn't in danger of a DNF for missing gates or getting lost on the course and was likely going to get a clean (no cones) run. Then, I'd try to shave 10% off from that time. That was always a difficult, but attainable, goal for me as a newbie.

Start out competing against yourself and it will take some of the pressure off. Don't look at the standings until at least your third run. By then, if this approach is working, you should be lowering your times and creeping closer to the leaders. The simple fact is that most experienced drivers are going to jump out ahead of you on the first couple of runs. Experience is what allows you to size up a course and run it fast from the opening run.

On the other hand, be sure that you try to take at least one run as close to flat out as you possibly can. That's really the only way you can learn what your car is capable of and how some of the other guys are still managing to beat your best runs, sometimes by bewildering amounts. Especially coming from rallyx, you'll be amazed at some of the things your car will pull off when pushed hard (once you have decent tires on it). BTW, coming from rallyx, you can probably skip the conventional wisdom of running a season with crappy tires so you learn how to balance the car and shift weight properly. Get some decent tires so autox doesn't become discouraging.

My best advice (coming from the perspective of a guy managing these events and designing courses) is to walk the course. Then walk the course. Then walk the course.

If you can close your eyes and drive the course in your head, you've walked it enough. Can't drive it in your head? Then walk the course.

Also, when walking the course, don't be afraid to turn around and look where you came from. Sometimes a new line will reveal itself.

There are fundamental strategy differences as well. Autocross, your one bonzai run is what counts. If you screw up a few runs it's ok. You go off course it's ok. Rallycross requires that you do well on average of all your runs, and if you really blow one, it makes for poor result for the day. So in general folks tend to be a little more conservative.

In autocross I try to do the first run around 80% to make sure I KNOW the course. If you get the course wrong the first time, it messes with your head the rest of the day. After that, I push hard to find what the limit of the car is, all the while mangling some cones if I go too far past the limit. You often find yourself having to kiss the cones to get a truly good run. I gradually work my way back down to a good run.

For rallycross, you have to start out and stay clean all day. That makes folks take a more conservative line. The course may change, so you have to be watching for that too. So folks tend to work up to their most aggressive runs.

However, like rallycross, being late on turns can really bite you in the butt.

I'd agree your tire choice isn't ideal, but those tires will probably teach you a bit about being smooth on the pavement.

I'd echo Dave's sentiment about walking the course. Walk it until they kick you off. Walk it from the perspective of being in your car.....ie being on the left side. Kiss the cones on your left and be 5 feet from the cones on your right. Make sure you can see well ahead of you, and not have a million bodies there.

Know that seat time is very important, and the folks that have been doing it a while are scary fast. Watch those folks. Ride with them and get them to ride with you.

Have fun.

Brett_Murphy wrote: One thing that really bugged me is that I kept making the *exact* same mistake every time. I kept going into the last turn too fast and having to brake too much to shed enough speed to finish the turn and cross the finish line without demolishing a bunch of cones. After I did it the first time, I kept saying "Go slower at the finish" over and over again when I was staging, but I totally forgot in the heat of the moment and did it anyhow.

Brake HARD (like right at the traction limit of the tires) in a straight line prior to your turn-in point, then trail off of the brakes as you turn the steering wheel. Pretend there is a string tied between your hands and your feet; as you turn into the corner, the string pulls your foot up off of the brake in a coordinated motion. Then at the exit of the corner, you do just the opposite - feed in more and more throttle as you straighten the wheel. Back to straight ahead, back to full throttle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZc07ugrl80

Welcome to the addiction! Were your knees shaking after your runs?

I walked the course with some experienced guys for a while, and had a good idea of the layout. We do that in rallycross, too. I agree that it is super important.

Next time out I'm going to go banzai- you don't know how fast you can go until you do it or your wipe out, right?

One thing you'll never hear after an autocross event: "I walked the course too many times..." If I'm lucky, I'll get three walks in. I'm always wishing for one more.

Look ahead. No. Look farther ahead than that. That is the one thing from my DH racing past that helps me with autocross. In DH, looking ahead gets drilled into you through pain.

I had a slim hope I'd be able to run again this year with the E30 before it is sold. Not looking likely now.

I've found on my RX8 that I'm quicker just pushing the stability/traction control button once. Doesn't turn it completely off, to do that you hold the button down for about 5 seconds.

I've got an autocross coming up next Sunday. Can't wait! I'll post results and videos next week.

DaveEstey wrote: My best advice (coming from the perspective of a guy managing these events and designing courses) is to walk the course. Then walk the course. Then walk the course. If you can close your eyes and drive the course in your head, you've walked it enough. Can't drive it in your head? Then walk the course. Also, when walking the course, don't be afraid to turn around and look where you came from. Sometimes a new line will reveal itself.

After my first trip to Nationals, I could hardly walk for about a week. I walked the courses so many times, everytime they were open for walk throughs, I went out. My experienced co-driver taught me that. There is no substitute for this. Even if you don't know the experienced hot shoes where you are, pick them out and follow them on the walk through. It's amazing what you can learn.

Having said that, I was very fortunate that I had two national champions as friends, and I learned more from them than I can type here. Learning how to drive is THE most important thing you can do. Far more important than what you can bolt to your car, even rubber.

Interestingly, I had been doing autocrosses and track days for almost 20 years when I went out with a Skip Barber instructor. Basically he told me my braking was crap and changed everthing. Even though I thought I was decently quick and had won a lot of wood, those changes took big time off.

You're never too good to learn something. And your brain is the cheapest thing to change, and the area for biggest improvement, but also the hardest.

The primary goal is seat time right now. My club as experienced vets who wear bright orange badges (BOBs) on lanyards around their neck. As a novice, I can ask any of them to ride along when I am driving. I had one ride along for my first run (which, as I noted was crap) and his feedback helped a lot in getting quicker.

I'm going to take advantage of the extra eyes and experience as long as I can.

Cool, glad you had fun.

Brett_Murphy wrote: The primary goal is seat time right now. My club as experienced vets who wear bright orange badges (BOBs) on lanyards around their neck. As a novice, I can ask any of them to ride along when I am driving. I had one ride along for my first run (which, as I noted was crap) and his feedback helped a lot in getting quicker. I'm going to take advantage of the extra eyes and experience as long as I can.

You've got the right attitude. The rest will come in time. It won't be over night, but if you've been rallycrossing, you'll get up to snuff pretty quick. It can depend on your club and the events you attend. Heavily attended events can mean fewer or shorter runs. As you already know seat time is key.

And I'm jealous, we won't have an autocross for a couple of months up here.

You did better than DFL and your car didn't fill the entire coarse with blue smoke. You had a better first time than I did.

Brett_Murphy wrote: The primary goal is seat time right now. My club as experienced vets who wear bright orange badges (BOBs) on lanyards around their neck. As a novice, I can ask any of them to ride along when I am driving. I had one ride along for my first run (which, as I noted was crap) and his feedback helped a lot in getting quicker. I'm going to take advantage of the extra eyes and experience as long as I can.

If there are ever "fun runs" at the end, grab closest BOB equipped old dude who's driving a car somewhat similar to yours and have them take YOUR car through the course, with you as a passenger. The newb school I went to had us thrash through the morning, then in the afternoon put instructors in each car to show us how much we had to learn. The best thing that happened to me was when the instructor said, "How about I drive the next run and you ride and observe?" In terms of wringing the absolute most out of my car, I learned more in the next 60 seconds than I would have in a year of driving on my own. Up to that point, I thought I was driving my car hard, but I was wrong.

Ive never done one but I hope to go to a couple this summer. I already know going to do horrible with a stock focus with stock tires but I want to learn how to drive and eventually get a moats or something for a toy.

DaveEstey wrote: My best advice (coming from the perspective of a guy managing these events and designing courses) is to walk the course. Then walk the course. Then walk the course. If you can close your eyes and drive the course in your head, you've walked it enough. Can't drive it in your head? Then walk the course. Also, when walking the course, don't be afraid to turn around and look where you came from. Sometimes a new line will reveal itself.

This. I walk it as many times as possible. And then I walk it again (quickly) when they say "1 minute left."

And I'm happy to say that in 100+ events I've never gone off-course, except 1 or 2 times I did it going backwards, lol.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I walked the course with some experienced guys for a while, and had a good idea of the layout. We do that in rallycross, too. I agree that it is super important.

for our rallycross, our courses are so long we don't get to walk them. We get a drive-through (sometimes two if it's muddy and they're trying to dry it up a bit). One or two people have been known to jump on a mountain bike and ride it though :)

Nice. Everyone else here covered what I was going to say racing-wise. I would bring very comfy shoes for course walking and cone-grabbing, since you will be on your feet a lot. Sunscreen and a hat as well. Don't be late for your assignment! BTDT, everyone gives you the hairy eyeball, and rightfully so since the the more heavily attended events are pressed for time.

I'm pretty much used to being DFL in autocross. My first autocross was in a '95 Saab 900S 5-door non-turbo with crappy all-seasons. Even the kiddie karts were kicking my ass. My '98 Impreza 2.2L and '87 RX-7 N/A weren't much better. I haven't raced in a couple of years, thanks to some upheavals in life. This year I want to get back into autocross and I'd like to think my '13 Mustang V-6 will be a much more potent racer than my previous ones. We'll see.

In reply to RexSeven:

I LOVE your Mustang. You got it just how I would have ordered one, right down to the color.

You're right, there's no reason why that shouldn't be a competitive G Stock car, or RTR should you running street tires.