Rant: Lack of family sized, fun, manual trans cars

Klayfish wrote:

docwyte wrote: Chevy SS. Large sedan, LS power, manual transmission...

Ah yes, I forgot about the SS. Definitely fits the bill...in about 5 years when depreciation kills their value. Right now, they're $40k+, double my budget. But great call, it's exactly the idea I'm looking for.

I wouldn't count on depreciation doing much in your favor with the SS. It's very similar to the 2009 G8 GXP which is still selling for 30k+ if you can find them. They aren't selling very many SS period, and even fewer are manuals. They'll be prized for quite awhile I think.

CTS-V

NickD wrote:

rslifkin wrote:

NickD wrote: Regal GS, everyone forgets about it. Nice, kind of sleeper styling, 276hp turbo 2.0L and a stick shift. I love those cars, don't think they got enough credit. Could also be had in AWD trim but only with an auto.

They also come with a terrifying amount of wheel hop. I rode in one for a dragstrip pass with PZeros on it. Driver dropped the clutch at 3k rpm and it felt like the front end was being repeatedly picked up a couple feet by a forklift and dropped.

Really? Interesting. I never holeshot one, just hustled them along twisty back roads.

[ Threadjack ]

Curious, how many miles on the said wheel-hopping GS? Its been my experience that wheel hop is almost universally corrected by the implementation of new OEM replacement motor and/or subframe/trans mounts in replacement of well-worn factory units, anf GM is pretty notorious (in my experience anyway) for having rubber that wears a bit prematurely, so it may well be time to get new bits under the hood.

Ive been lusting over a GS since it was released, though IIRC, the later model years are manumatic only (no 3rd pedal - though, I could be wrong). I am dismayed to hear that there were issues that dramatic - from what I heard, it was fairly adept at displaying a sporting pretense.

[ /Threadjack ]

4cylndrfury wrote: Curious, how many miles on the said wheel-hopping GS? Its been my experience that wheel hop is almost universally corrected by the implementation of new OEM replacement motor and/or subframe/trans mounts in replacement of well-worn factory units, anf GM is pretty notorious (in my experience anyway) for having rubber that wears a bit prematurely, so it may well be time to get new bits under the hood. Ive been lusting over a GS since it was released, though IIRC, the later model years are manumatic only (no 3rd pedal - though, I could be wrong). I am dismayed to hear that there were issues that dramatic - from what I heard, it was fairly adept at displaying a sporting pretense. [ /Threadjack ]

I don't know exactly, but it was fairly low mileage (definitely well under 50k, probably under 30k). Other than the wheel hop, it felt pretty good from the passenger seat perspective.

Because what you are asking for has mutually exclusive requirements.

If it were me in your shoes, I would pick a bodystyle that appealed to me and then within the budget modify it to fit my desires.

Also, do you have any idea of how small of a percentage of the autobuying public has "Fun" as a requirement to be ticked off during vehicle purchase? Hint...hardly anyone. Color would be way above that on the list.

Klayfish wrote: I drive 130 miles per day, sometimes more. Most of it is highway...65% of that is 80mph cruising, 35% is rush hour traffic.

With that type of driving what good is a manual? 65% of the time in top gear just cruising and 35% frantically shifting gears to go a block or two and do it all over again.

I owned manual transmission vehicles exclusively from the time I started driving in 1959 until 2010 (still had one until a couple months ago) and see that driving record as perfect for an automatic.

Subaru WRX. The current model is surprisingly large inside. Good power, fun to drive stick shift, all wheel drive.

Really a "jack of all trades". Probably the bigges knock against it is if you would prefer a six cylinder engine instead of a turbo-4

dculberson wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Sorry...you can handle the maintenance. Click Here

That is not a large sedan!

I went and raced karts last Friday, and it sure felt large after that. Gets my family of four around town occasionally...when my desire to drive something fun outweighs my annoyance at kids touching glass, kicking (or walking on) my seats, putting their damn feet all over everything, squirreling away crumbs...everywhere, etc.

Large cars don't have a manual transmissions, unless they are European, and you don't want that. The Focus ST is pretty darn close, but you don't want that. The Chevy SS is SPOT ON, but you don't want that. Honda and Subaru both continue to offer a manual, but you don't want that. A truck can be fun to drive with a manual, but you don't want that.

Is it a lack of cars, or are we being too picky? :)

dyintorace wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Sorry...you can handle the maintenance. Click Here

Wheels look great! Specs/details? Nice work!

Apex ARC-8 18x9 et 30. 245 35 18 Continental Contisport Contact Extreme DW <---comically overcompensating name. Tight fit due to the offset, but I wanted the M3 concave center section. E46 rear fenders are no fun to roll, but I took my time and did it right...slow going, but no cracked paint or ripples or general jankiness.

Don't worry, I'm taking good care of your old car.

Klayfish wrote:

Sonic wrote: I'll be the second one to point out the manual trans in the last generation Acura TL. Big, comfy cruiser, sporty enough to not be boring, Honda reliable, reasonable highway fuel economy, and it will probably run fine on regular gas giving up a bit of power. I might even know a guy in TX casually looking to sell one.

I had completely forgotten they sold the last gen TL with a manual. Definitely one to think about when the time comes. I agree, it would certainly check a ton of my needs/wants. Wow, they sure keep their value, they aren't cheap. Not buying anything right this minute anyway...no real rush.

I think this is a solid suggestion. The 05-07 TL-S with a manual comes with helical LSD and Brembos too.

The new civic is probably larger inside than a 10yr old Acura TL. Also the TL does not have a fully folding rear seat.

Civic is brand new turbo-4, stick shift and also going to be available as a hatchback.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to OldGray320i: And one can also turn the fuel off during the shift- and while there is a spike in O2 in the cats- it's not long enough to really set the cat system lean.

That level of control probably shouldn't surprise me, but it did anyway... I'm thinking of the starting and stopping at whatever point in the cycle, at whatever rpm, throttle position, etc.

I remember some of the ridiculous things the engineers did in defense, and forget the talent levels out there with the big cats in industry.

I miss working with the tech guys...

I know it's German but what about one of the newer gas Passats? You can get them with a stick shift and meets your room criteria.

pinchvalve wrote: Large cars don't have a manual transmissions, unless they are European, and you don't want that. The Focus ST is pretty darn close, but you don't want that. The Chevy SS is SPOT ON, but you don't want that. Honda and Subaru both continue to offer a manual, but you don't want that. A truck can be fun to drive with a manual, but you don't want that. Is it a lack of cars, or are we being too picky? :)

Yeah, probably some degree of being picky. But my wife has the ability to choose from 77 different shades of red in a shoe, but I can't pick much from a full size non-European car in a manual trans. Not sure how pick up trucks got into this conversation, they don't belong. They're trucks, I want a car. I agree the SS is a perfect fit, and yes I want it, but I can't afford it.

My point is that there are a number of larger, non-European affordable cars that don't offer manuals, but offer them in other variants within the family or have corporate pieces available to do so. Accord (V6 6spd available in the identical coupe), Charger/300 (Hemi 6spd in Challenger), Genesis (RWD 6spd offered in coupe), Maxima (VQ offered in 6spd in Nissan family). Though I'm somewhat mixed on turbo 4s and they wouldn't be at the top of my list, Fusion EcoBoost would be worth a look if available in 6spd. So would Optima SX. Hell, even the V6 Camry would get a look from me if available as a 6spd. That's 8 off the top of my head.

I'm not buying right now anyway, but as I ponder what I'd be interested in next, it stinks that there are a ton of cars that I'd be all in for if they offered a manual. I realize the market just doesn't support selling many cars like this, I just wish it would.

I went through the same exercise earlier this year when my latest in a string of manual family cars gave up the ghost (Previous - 2003 Maxima, 2005 Outback, 2007 WRX wagon). I finally settled on a 2014 VW GLI. I know it breaks one of the commandments but I found them semi-plentiful in stick (for a sedan) and the depreciation for essentially a 'GTI with a trunk' put a gently used one with warranty easily in the $20K range... I fully understand the dice I'm rolling with VW reliability but it has been good so far.

The back seat legroom is huge for my 7 and 9 year old and the trunk swallows two GRIT hockey tower bags (monstrosities) and sticks quite easily. I've been impressed...

Dr Ribs Revere wrote: The new civic is probably larger inside than a 10yr old Acura TL. Also the TL does not have a fully folding rear seat. Civic is brand new turbo-4, stick shift and also going to be available as a hatchback.

Agreed. The new Civic is a pretty big car.

P.S. if I really wanted to get picky, I'd be bitching about the lack of full size wagons with a stick. Accord V6 6spd wagon...yes please. Revive the Dodge Magnum and offer it with a Hemi (which they did before) and 6spd...not only can you have one of my kidneys, but I'll throw in half my liver to sweeten the deal.

Add this one to your list: Passat R

Saw them when I was looking for a GTI. REALLY good-looking car, and a perfect size for a small family like mine. The price was like $23K! Then you find out that it is all looks, no GTI suspension or motor, no manual transmission either. 170hp with a Tiptronic isn't horrible, and you can get the Passat with a V6, but why not drop the GTI/GLI drivetrain up there and make a great medium-sized sports sedan?

edit, nm... :P Already mentioned.

If the CTS-V is too high-maintenance, what about the normal CTS? The second-gen came in a manual sedan flavor. Seems like a great highway cruiser. If you're still worried about reliability there's always a Carmax warranty.

You can buy a base model Forester with a manual transmission. Not a 6 cylinder, not a sports car, fits all your needs. Shares a lot with the WRX/Impreza Chassis. I found my wifes base model surprisingly fun to drive when we had it. Which leads me to her new XT, it's a blast but auto. But wait theres more. They sold them with a manual trans for a while and they look super cool as well. Fits family needs, fits manual trans needs, sounds cool, and relatively cheap!

Anyways, I agree with you. It's frustrating. There are options out there, none of them quite fit the bill and check all the boxes. Chevy SS, big RWD family sedan, manual, gobs of power......$45k sticker. NOPE.

Accord Sport looks great, only has a 4 cylinder option with manual in sedan form. Lack of options makes it a tough buy at it's price point when you can now get a loaded civic hatch with a manual and 9 less hp; but a turbo, for the same price.

WRX/STI hit almost every single mark in my box for a family sedan. 4 doors, large trunk, plenty of power, manual, comes pretty loaded, and a base WRX can be had for around $26-27k.

People simply don't want manuals. They were never taught to drive them, they are scared of them, anxiety reigns over them thinking about the appropriate time to shift, what do I do at a red light, I only have two feet and two hands - how am I going to text and drive, is "R" race mode?

I 2nd the 2g CTS 3.6/6spd suggestion.

This is the reason I went to FL and got another 9-5 to replace the one that got hit and totaled. I had decided to get either a used Regal GS or a new KIA Forte5. They were both in the mid to low 20's but in the end I decided to forgo a car payment and pay cash for another 9-5. Besides, my last one was still going strong at just under 240K miles and I really like the way they drive.

Now if VW would have offered a stick with the turbo engine in the CC it may have ended differently.

The CTS is fairly close to meeting the criteria, in 3.6L guise. But from all I know of it, the car is a steaming pile when it comes to reliability. No thanks. Damn shame too, seems like a really nice car.