Rate It: Dodge's Attempt at a Miata-Fighter

It's just that the market for small "toy" cars is pretty small.  Very few people are buying 2 seat convertibles as their primary transportation so you either have buyers with so much money they don't care what it costs or people buying used and cheap.  I can't imagine taking on a car payment for a new Miata, and I can't imagine I'm that unusual.

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the convertible, if it made it to production, would have been a total POS and a blast to drive.

Granted, my Solstice was also a total POS and I loved it.  Small roadsters are the beeeeest.

True... although if I want to drive a total POS convertible that I love, I have a Spitfire. 

It is RWD, so I woulda at least looked. At that time I had already been disappointed by the Fiero as it extruded it self onto the market as an inside-out chevette, and had my hopes for a proper sport scar dashed by the Lotus going FWD. I was then saved by the Miata.

What I cant get from the images is any sense of proportions. Is that thing big or small compared to a Miata?

Pete

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the convertible, if it made it to production, would have been a total POS and a blast to drive.

Granted, my Solstice was also a total POS and I loved it.  Small roadsters are the beeeeest.

True... although if I want to drive a total POS convertible that I love, I have a Spitfire. 

The ultimate POS convertible!

Poor ChryCo.

NOHOME said:

It is RWD, so I woulda at least looked. At that time I had already been disappointed by the Fiero as it extruded it self onto the market as an inside-out chevette, and had my hopes for a proper sport scar dashed by the Lotus going FWD. I was then saved by the Miata.

 

What I cant get from the images is any sense of proportions. Is that thing big or small compared to a Miata?

 

Pete

Not sure... does anyone know where the prototype ended up and if it can be seen by the public? Probably buried and collecting dust in a FCA warehouse somewhere. 

The real magic in a Miata is the driving experience, and Mazda has gotten that right in every generation of the car.  The car is built to drive, the automotive version of the architectural Form Follows Function.  Seems that it's not easy to do that, the car geeks usually lose to the bean counters and marketing.

The shortcomings of the Miata are easy to fix:  Add power to your liking, change the handling/ride ratio to your preference, etc..  But I haven't had another car as steeped in the Jinba Ittai attitude as a Miata and you can't bolt that on.  (god, I sound like a Mazda commercial...). I wonder if something coming out of Dodge might have been built that way.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:

It's just that the market for small "toy" cars is pretty small.  Very few people are buying 2 seat convertibles as their primary transportation so you either have buyers with so much money they don't care what it costs or people buying used and cheap.  I can't imagine taking on a car payment for a new Miata, and I can't imagine I'm that unusual.

Or like myself and my lady, we are DINK's. 

So I can have a Miata and then she can drive the "normal" car my '18 Mazda 3.

If they would build it, a lot of us would buy it.

NickD said:

This thing with the Caliber SRT-4 engine would have been a spicy unit. And if it had survived to today, Dodge would have found a way to cram a Hellcat motor in it somehow. The one that I was said didn't come to pass was the Chrysler Firepower, which was a swanky Chrysler sport coupe on the Viper chassis with 6.1L Hemi motivation. Woulda been a damn sight better than the stupid Crossfire.

Would have been, unlikely to have sold well. Look at the Sky/Solstice twins, but I guess their parent companies were also on the way out. 

I'd love to see Mazda do a real, honest-to-Hades ND Mazdaspeed.

Snowdoggie said:

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

Snowdoggie said:

Putting a Hellcat in it would make it a totally different animal. Sort of like a modern day Shelby Cobra. 

Nobody makes anything like that today. 

How cool would that be?

 

And before someone complains about how much a LS3ND costs, bear in mind the Cobra base price was around $6600 in 1963 - or around $55K in today's money. It was not a cheap car. Especially considering how bare-bones it was, even for 1963.

Compared to the price of an original Cobra today at whatever classic car auction you can get one from,  it's probably a still a bargain. 

That makes me wonder what a clean, well cared for, low mileage ND with a documented Flyin Miata V8 swap will sell for on Bring a Trailer in 2070.

I'll bet a lot.

Keith Tanner said:

The Miata only makes sense to Mazda if you realize it's their halo car. Did Dodge have a platform they could use for this thing, or was it going to require a lot of engineering?

 

Miata sales in the US (note that it does well in other countries):
2005    9,801
2006    16,897
2007    15,075
2008    10,977
2009    7,917
2010    6,380
2011    5,674
2012    6,739
2013    5,780
2014    4,745
2015    8,591
2016    9,465
2017    11,294
2018    8,971
2019    7,753
2020    4,320

Those numbers really surprised me!  As being very low-  I did a quick search on the global numbers and they helped me see some sort of chance for Mazda to perhaps break even on the platform but  they took a big risk redesigning a car they were selling 15-12k of annually globally. That is a ton of dedicated tooling managerial  sales  support and infrastructure resources to devote to a product you are going sell 30k of.   Japanese investors must have different profitability expectations than US firms.

In reply to z31maniac :

Check out what Joe McClughan at DynotronicsTuning.com has done with a bolt-on turbo on the NC -- 350+ hp on a stock 2.0 engine, for less than $4K.  

Just no.  That company has made quite enough rental cars.  Vomit is nearly cresting the esophagus.

KGMonteith said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Check out what Joe McClughan at DynotronicsTuning.com has done with a bolt-on turbo on the NC -- 350+ hp on a stock 2.0 engine, for less than $4K.  

My bad, that should have said ND. Fixed.

At that point it's gonna need a clutch and other cooling mods if you want to do anything other than go to the grocery store and back.

The chart above is Miata sales for the US starting from 1989. As you can see they sold a lot more of them in the first 10 years, meaning there are more NAs than anything else. They sold around 35,000 of them in 1990. They sold just under 8,000 of them last year. What other company would continue to make a model selling less than half what they used to sell 20 years ago? 

Wasn't this based on the second-generation Mercedes SLK platform, and part of the reason it died was because Chrysler and Daimler divorced in 2007?  

The problem with coveting a production Demon would have been its parentage.  Chrysler makes interesting cars, but you never quite know how they're going to hang together.  Neons were great, if you were looking for a 1975 Datsun with more power.  I was really interested in the Alfa-based Dart for my daughter when they brought it over, but after test driving one, it just felt a little rickety...ended up buying her a Ford Fiesta instead, which felt much more solid (and proved it when some oxygen thief hit her several years later).  I've put almost 300,000 miles on an NB Miata, without much concern about how hard I've used it...I can't imagine getting that out of a Chrysler.  

Brand identity is the worst thing to happen to cars not named BMW.  Instead of a manufacturer making one ugly car, they make them all ugly.

I like it.  I have never been a fan of the way a miata looks.  I actually like the looks of the Demon posted by Colin alot better than a miata.  Kind of looks like a mini DB9 or a much more modern Jag just at 3/4 scale.  If that had been made in 2007-08 or 09 that would have been game changer design wise.  

z31maniac said:

KGMonteith said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Check out what Joe McClughan at DynotronicsTuning.com has done with a bolt-on turbo on the NC -- 350+ hp on a stock 2.0 engine, for less than $4K.  

My bad, that should have said ND. Fixed.

At that point it's gonna need a clutch and other cooling mods if you want to do anything other than go to the grocery store and back.

Does the engine hold?  If so, I would agree, sooner or later it will need everything from the transmission back :P

In reply to ProDarwin :

You know, I'm not sure what the stock 2.0s are good for? I really wanted to Rotrex it, but the only kit is apparently garbage.

In reply to Colin Wood :

This is one ugly (but still cute) little puppy. Put in the SRT4 2.4 turbo that was available back then and go dog go! Too bad bean counters, executives and corporate attorneys get in the way of some really good ideas. There is so much awesome car guy talent pent up in our domestic manufacturers. It is a shame that they are only 'minimally' released on relatively lame offerings like Mustang and Camaro. Perhaps a bit more latitude was garnered on Vettes and GT40s (the latter being unobtainium for the average bloke). Yup, I want an affordable domestic mini rocket. Where is the domestic Civic R type, WRX STI, or Golf R??? 'Murca' has the brains and capability but is mired in bureaucratic pooh... hell Ford doesn't even make cars anymore (except for the Mustang) ... standard shift is all but dead and, if available, it is a 'premium' option. Performance is at an all time high, but it is not a good time for 'real' car guys. I'll chime out now and go drive my torque steering nightmare 1996 Dodge Omni GLHS and reminisce on the 'good ol' days.

In reply to Yavuz :

Looks better than the big nose thing.

I will never stop mourning the Dodge Copperhead. Never.