Recommendations for playtoy/weekend sports car under $30k?

DirtyBird222 wrote: Just buy an S2000 already. You have a Golf R for DDing so I don't see the need for owning another German car if you're worried about maintenance costs. I just bought an AP2 S2000. 2005 was the last year with a real throttle cable and no traction nannies. I'm in love. Parts are pretty cheap, it's super easy to work on, large aftermarket and it's a Honda so parts crossover from other models, and that bottom end is good for 500whp if you want to add boost. I was on the fence between that and a 996 hard top and the long term maintenance costs of the Porsche made me choose a S2K. An ND Miata was on my shopping list too. I had an absolute blast driving one around but I wasn't going to pay more for one of those when it was just as clunky and loud as a used S2K with less power and a brand new car price tag.

I'll probably end up with an S2000.

The "normal" maintenance/running costs of the Porsche don't really scare me. The catastrophic failure costs are absolutely terrifying, especially with there being such a long list of things to go wrong on the early 987's (IMS, bore scoring, timing chain problems, cracked heads, ect).

When I drove the 986 and the AP2 S2000, I actually preferred the S2000... which is too bad, because 986 engines seem to be considerably cheaper than 987 motors!

Honestly, if engines for the 987 S were in the <$6000 range and I could do the labor myself, I think I would just pull the trigger and get the P-car. Unfortunately, the cost of a 987 replacement engine is generally in the $15k-$20k range once everything is said and done. For me that would mean having to pull money out of my retirement, or a home equity loan; neither of which am I comfortable with.

I've considered the aftermarket warranty approach, but I've heard several horror stories on Rennlist of warranty companies blaming some outside factor and denying claims. Add in the potential for aftermarket parts and occasional track days or autoX events, and it's a real gamble.

There are quite a few people out there that are okay taking those types of risks to drive such a great car; hats off to them! The more and more I think about it, I am having a hard time justifying it when there are cars like the AP2 S2000 out there that offer me 95% of the thrills, with a substantially smaller risk factor. Add in the fact that S2000's are no longer depreciating, there's a larger aftermarket for them and they're much easier to work on, and it remains the top car on my list.

I've driven several S2000's, to include a 2005 (throttle cable) and a 2007 (DBW). I think I would have to drive them back to back to really notice the difference, as I didn't notice any real "throttle lag" in the DBW (2006-2009) car. I'll likely end up in a DBW car, just due to the ease of tuning (Hondata/ECU reflashing) in case I ever want to add more power. I could definitely see myself getting "the itch" and supercharging an S2000 down the line; the Kraftwerks and Science of Speed kits seem like they would be a lot of fun, while keeping near-stock reliability.

Although I would still like to at least drive a Lotus Elise; but finding one that I can drive locally is easier said than done!

Snrub wrote: Thanks for the comments, interesting to hear. Is it a lack of nimbleness that you missed? The Z51 package gives a ton of value, even used it seems like it offers too much to avoid. Bigger rad, oil cooler, transaxle cooler, bigger brakes, better gearing, stiffer suspension. The cost and effort of changing all of that yourself in a base model is considerable. Dimensionally speaking, the C6 vs. RX-8 (I own one) is the same length and wheel base, C6 +3" width, -3" height, +200lbs. It sounds like it drives bigger than that? turtl631 - what is it that you think makes it feel not special to drive?

Yes, the extra nimbleness in the S2000, Boxster and Miata were apparent, but it's a bit more than that. The C6 feels more isolated/less connected to the road.

For the record, I actually remember having more fun the last time I drove an RX-8 (vs the C6). In my opinion, the RX-8 did a better job of "shrinking" around the driver, and I remember it feeling more nimble than the C6. But I didn't drive an RX-8 back to back with a C6, so my views could be a bit skewed.

But, take my opinions with a grain of salt, especially since I didn't drive the Z51 or Grand Sport versions of the car. I probably would have enjoyed them to a greater degree.

JtspellS wrote: Buy an NC, talk with Keith and his crew and make a super 20?

Not a bad plan! Over the past decade, I've driven the NC more times than you would probably believe... Almost pulled the trigger on getting an NC more than once.

Here's the problem: I prefer the S2000 over the NC, in almost every way- aesthetics, engine, gearbox, stock suspension, seats, ect.

Although since the release of the ND, I've noticed NC prices have gone down quickly. The NC is now a good amount of car for the money. You could probably build a very solid NC and still stay under my budget. But in the end, I think I would just prefer to start with the S2000.

roninsoldier83 wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote: Just buy an S2000 already. You have a Golf R for DDing so I don't see the need for owning another German car if you're worried about maintenance costs. I just bought an AP2 S2000. 2005 was the last year with a real throttle cable and no traction nannies. I'm in love. Parts are pretty cheap, it's super easy to work on, large aftermarket and it's a Honda so parts crossover from other models, and that bottom end is good for 500whp if you want to add boost. I was on the fence between that and a 996 hard top and the long term maintenance costs of the Porsche made me choose a S2K. An ND Miata was on my shopping list too. I had an absolute blast driving one around but I wasn't going to pay more for one of those when it was just as clunky and loud as a used S2K with less power and a brand new car price tag.

I'll probably end up with an S2000. The "normal" maintenance/running costs of the Porsche don't really scare me. The catastrophic failure costs are absolutely terrifying, especially with there being such a long list of things to go wrong on the early 987's (IMS, bore scoring, timing chain problems, cracked heads, ect). When I drove the 986 and the AP2 S2000, I actually preferred the S2000... which is too bad, because 986 engines seem to be considerably cheaper than 987 motors! Honestly, if engines for the 987 S were in the <$6000 range and I could do the labor myself, I think I would just pull the trigger and get the P-car. Unfortunately, the cost of a 987 replacement engine is generally in the $15k-$20k range once everything is said and done. For me that would mean having to pull money out of my retirement, or a home equity loan; neither of which am I comfortable with. I've considered the aftermarket warranty approach, but I've heard several horror stories on Rennlist of warranty companies blaming some outside factor and denying claims. Add in the potential for aftermarket parts and occasional track days or autoX events, and it's a real gamble. There are quite a few people out there that are okay taking those types of risks to drive such a great car; hats off to them! The more and more I think about it, I am having a hard time justifying it when there are cars like the AP2 S2000 out there that offer me 95% of the thrills, with a substantially smaller risk factor. Add in the fact that S2000's are no longer depreciating, there's a larger aftermarket for them and they're much easier to work on, and it remains the top car on my list. I've driven several S2000's, to include a 2005 (throttle cable) and a 2007 (DBW). I think I would have to drive them back to back to really notice the difference, as I didn't notice any real "throttle lag" in the DBW (2006-2009) car. I'll likely end up in a DBW car, just due to the ease of tuning (Hondata/ECU reflashing) in case I ever want to add more power. I could definitely see myself getting "the itch" and supercharging an S2000 down the line; the Kraftwerks and Science of Speed kits seem like they would be a lot of fun, while keeping near-stock reliability. Although I would still like to at least drive a Lotus Elise; but finding one that I can drive locally is easier said than done!

I had a tough time getting in and out of a friend's elise when I was in my early 20s, add in a few years of having a ruck on my back and I feel like a 70 year old when I get out of my S2k. If you're still limber go for it! I started yoga again after buying the S2k lol.

As for the depreciation, I think they already passed the bottom of their depreciation curve and are back on the rise. Glad I found one owner, bone stock car.

How about a 5th generation Camaro with a 1LE package?

Here's one with a $34k ask:

http://www.stadiumautotexas.com/Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro/vd/37602204

I'll add, regarding the 1LE, that the current generation Camaro 1LE package is about to drop. There is an SS version again, but they're releasing a V6 LT model too. The LT V6 1LE is supposed to be close to the outgoing SS V8 in performance, but is a new car that should sell in the low $30k range. That's going to push previous generation SS 1LE cars down in price, I'd guess.

Mike wrote: How about a 5th generation Camaro with a 1LE package? Here's one with a $34k ask: http://www.stadiumautotexas.com/Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro/vd/37602204

I would expect that this violates criteria #1 of the original post.

I'm surprised given your size that you prefer an S2000. At 6'1" 185 I barely fit in the thing. I'd do a C6 Grand Sport so you can have the removable roof and something close to a Z06 in performance.

I believe the base C6 has adjustable suspension. Did you try adjusting between sport and touring and whatever the other setting is? Not sure if that would have made enough of a difference on the softness you experienced.

mainlandboy wrote:

Mike wrote: How about a 5th generation Camaro with a 1LE package? Here's one with a $34k ask: http://www.stadiumautotexas.com/Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro/vd/37602204

I would expect that this violates criteria #1 of the original post.

I don't think that distinction is so clear these days. This is bigger and heavier than a Miata, but it goes, stops and turns.

It has all three kinds of performance.

Edit: So, I can see OP skipping it, but I don't think it's a bad suggestion.

Also coming soon is the 6th generation 1LE in V6 LT trim. It's lighter and smaller, and will have a base MSRP just north of the OP's budget. Orders are supposed to be going in now for delivery Q4 2016.

Edit edit: hotlink

Harvey wrote: I'm surprised given your size that you prefer an S2000. At 6'1" 185 I barely fit in the thing. I'd do a C6 Grand Sport so you can have the removable roof and something close to a Z06 in performance.

I suppose it's all how your mass is proportioned. I've owned 2 Miata's, and driven all 4 generations of Miata- the S2000 felt larger inside than all of them to me. Yes, I'm very "snug" inside the S2000, but I fit just fine.

The C6 Vette certainly has more room than the S2000, but it just didn't have the same raw, driver's car experience I was looking for. It was much softer and more isolated.

I honestly thought the 987 Boxster was the "perfect" size- more room than the S2000, I believe my head was actually below the OEM roll hoops, but still felt very cockpit oriented. Boxster also offered a much better seating position than the C6. Probably one of the many reasons I have such a hard time writing it off.

There's no question the performance difference between a sports car and other types of vehicles has decreased. There are lot of massively capable larger vehicles eg. muscle cars, luxury sedan/coupes, etc. They accelerate, turn, brake. They do not necessarily feel nimble or fun. eg. I was disappointed driving the previous generation Mustang GT. They were very affordable when only a year or two old. Numbers wise it was a match for a E9x M3, but it's not engaging to drive. I wanted to love it. It's not a bad car, just not the kind of car I like. I have to be honest, I'd be similarly suspicious of the V6 Camaro 1LE.

I always overlook it, but one of the most fun canyon drives I've ever taken was actually in a 2015 Nismo 370Z. It was a fairly crude car- springy clutch, rough shifter, huge blindspots, doesn't exactly make pretty noises, a bit on the heavier side, ect.... but goddamn was it fun to pitch down a canyon road!

Drove a 370Z Sport down the same road and wasn't really impressed; felt more like a GT car... but the suspension on the Nismo made it a riot to drive around corners in anger, and the big V6 had great throttle response- very easy to keep on boil. I remember absolutely loving the steering feel/feedback! I know some complained that the steering was too heavy on those cars, but I thought it had a nice weight to it.

I'll likely never get one due to the lack of a removable roof option (not interested in the much heavier, softer roadster version), but I figured I would share my thoughts in case someone found this thread in the future and was looking for a hardtop sports car.

I had a lot more fun in the Nismo 370Z than I did a base C6 Corvette. Although I still can't comment on the Z51 or Grand Sport packages.

I attended a local Cars and Coffee today, where a very nice lady allowed me to attempt to fit inside of her Lotus Elise. For reference, I'm about 6'2" 210 lbs, with a 33" waist, 33" in-seam and ~47" chest.

Do I fit? Technically, yes. Ish. A few notes about large-man fitment in the Elise:

-Once I got in, surprisingly enough, leg room seemed just fine. If I was any taller I think it would have been a problem, but I felt like I could operate the pedals without a problem and the steering wheel was probably a good 1" or more away from my thighs.

-The top was removed, so "head room" was technically fine, but my head would have easily been into the soft top if it was still attached. The owner thought that my head would fit underneath the hardtop Exige, but assured me that my head would be cramped if she re-attached the soft top.

-Shoulder/elbow room is non-existent with a passenger. I have relatively broad shoulders, and my right shoulder and elbow were legitimately overlapped into the passenger seat.

-To reiterate, the top was removed before I entered the car... Just getting inside of the Elise was a job for a contortionist! I literally felt like I was climbing inside of a clown car... I can't see how I would quickly and gracefully enter an Elise. I felt bad, as I think I might have swept my shoe on the Elise's dashboard just trying to get my leg inside. "Awkward entry" is an understatement. I'm pretty sure I've had an easier time climbing into caged race cars!

Verdict: with the top removed and no passenger, I think it would be tolerable for very short drives, or stints on a racetrack. For something I might drive to work, take on mountain trips or use for date night with the little lady, it's not going to work.

Just figured I would share my thoughts for any other tall/larger guys that happen to run across this thread.

I've got a silver mr-s turbo track/street car that I'm putting the finishing touches on. Will be sorted and ready for a customer by spring. Pm me if you're interested. It's WAY under your budget

So, it's been a while, but I figured I would update this thread. I just picked up my new weekend/playtoy car- a 2007 Honda S2000! It's silverstone metallic with the red/black interior; I really dig the red/black! Car was in great shape, bone stock, only 29k miles on the clock, only 2 previous owners (last owner had it for 7 years), no accidents, ect.

Overall, I'm very happy to finally have another roadster in my garage to park next to the Golf R.

Elise or 987 S with the Elise being my overwhelming preference for the driving fun part of your usage and the Boxster because everything else about it is better than the Lotus and the driving fun part is still better than everything else on your list.

The BMW 128/135 cars came in a ragtop w/ six speed. I personally did not love the car at all but a lot of people do and rave about it's handling so it's worth a drive if you haven't yet. They are well below your limit by enough to swap out the whole suspension with something else and still have cash left over.

In reply to Huckleberry:

Read the post above yours, I think he's made his choice.

Beautiful car, OP!

Joe Gearin wrote: Elise, Elise and Elise. Contact Hays Harris at www.wirewheel.com He's an honest guy and a longterm friend of GRM. Out of your choices, nothing will be more fun to drive, or special to own than the Elise--- prices are headed up, so now is a good time to buy. The others will be more comfortable, but this is a toy right? The Elise will make the others feel like marshmallows in comparison. Caveat---- if you are over 6', or 200 lbs or so, you may have a tough time getting in and out of one, or just fitting in one.

All of this. I'm 6'1" and I fit fine. Just understand that there is no graceful way to enter/exit an Elise

I am the perfect size for an Elise, and all other small cars. The one Exige that I drove was owned by a much taller person at 6'2, he showed me how to basically stand in the car then just slide down the seat. This is not as handy with the top on.