Redundant features

After driving my 2011 Fiesta on all kinds of roads, pavement, dirt, snow and ice I have come to the conclusion that traction control,ABS and stability control are just sops to the safety pundits. The light comes to tell me the wheels are spinning, as if I don't know that. The ABS sucks in the snow and ice. A couple of times on the dirt I got the rear end loose and the light came on to tell me that. As far as doing anything safety wise, I haven't seen it. So now I just ignore the light and drive the way my senses are telling me. It's still a fun car to drive.

I remember the first time i autoX'd a c5 (me being primarily a FWD racer), i kept thinking the car was doing really odd things. Turned off all the nannies and found out the weird things it was doing were saving my ass. So sometimes you dont know your ass is being saved.

Of course, i still beat the owner's times.

I will be curious as to what happens at an autocross.

iceracer wrote: I will be curious as to what happens at an autocross.

maybe the ABS/traction control systems will react the way the OnStar system reacted on that one Caddy a couple of years ago.. the car accelerated and slowed down so fast at the dragstrip that the Onstar box thought the car was in some sort of a horrendous wreck and called in to report it. there is an in car video clip on the Youtubes somewhere...

I have ABS in my cars.. that is all I need or want in the way of traction/automated car control.

Over many years of learning to moderate the brakes in slippery going ,the ABS seems oversensative. This is my first car with ABS. Maybe I'll get used to it.

Some cars are more sensitive. The ABS in my old Saab NG900 would pulsate if you thought about hitting the brakes hard.

My BMW either has VERY transparent ABS.. or I have never managed to come close to it's braking threshold

Black electrical tape over the idiot lights solves all those problems.

BMW ABS is extremely well programmed.

As far as traction control, in my M3 I could never tell I needed it. In my M Roadster, I depend on it... car is super tail happy and the traction control keeps it planted.

But on the track I picked up nearly 10 seconds by turning it off... it was really limiting acceleration out of the corners... almost transparently though...

I think on pavement the low power of the Fiesta will not cause a traction problem.

I think on pavement the low power of the Fiesta will not cause a traction problem.

mad_machine wrote: My BMW either has VERY transparent ABS.. or I have never managed to come close to it's braking threshold

If it's an E30, it probably just doesn't work anymore!

My camaro (98) will flash the 'Low Traction" light if it rains, or if I turn or gravel, or if I go over a bumpy section of road.

I can turn it off, but that just leaves me with a different light on telling me I have the traction control off. lol

I got stuck in a storm in a newer ranger and all the nannies got me back safe. Of course it was a 2wd automatic truck with crappy allseasons.

It was zero fun but I was worried for my life and the life of a vehicle that did not belong to me.

On the drive home from work I took my 4wd cherokee with no abs, decent tires and dominated the snow.

For as much fun snatching the stability control (not easily disabled) and traction control computers provide, I have never been in such an ill-suted vehicle for the conditions that did ok. On a daily driver or proper application I think this stuff is great. Should be optional, but the technology has progressed massively over the traction/stability control from 5 years ago.

I'm all for defeat-able driving aids. I got caught out last winter in a snowstorm in my summer-tired 350Z and between traction control, stability control, LSD, and ABS I was climbing up and down hills in the Cincinnati area with no problem. I doubt it would have worked out for me without all these "nannies."

The title made me think of when my uncle bought a Subaru Brat. "It's got a roll bar and anti roll bar in case I can't decide which I want to do."

My girlfriend's Mazda3s has DSC and all seasons. I cannot move in snow with it turned on. I can modulate the throttle much easier with it off and when she got stuck, I could drive it out.

I will have to say, the system seems to be very unintrusive for the most part. Except for the ABS.

ShadowSix wrote: I'm all for defeat-able driving aids.

That's not what the nanny-state wants you to have. They want to force you to use that stuff.

"We also welcome the electronic stability program, but there shouldn't be a button that allows the driver to turn it off. With ESP deactivated, this car could outdrive the average cop." - Randy Keller, chief instructor at EVOC

z31maniac wrote:

mad_machine wrote: My BMW either has VERY transparent ABS.. or I have never managed to come close to it's braking threshold

If it's an E30, it probably just doesn't work anymore!

nope.. e36 318ti. And I know it does work, as I tested it on dirt

E36 M3 ABS saved me many an expensive flat spot while LFB with 1 front wheel in the air. I never really thought about it until I built the E30 race car without it. Its a blow to the ego to see smoke signals telling you how much your braking needs improvement

Our smart has traction and stability control with no way to disable as it's tied into the ABS. Biggest problem thus far in two years is getting car unstuck in snow as you cannot spin the wheels to dig thru the snow. And up hill it uses too much brake to slow the wheels and cuts engine power as well. All in all however, it being rear engined and rear drive it has plenty of traction for an 1800 lb car. Momentum, momentum, momentum!

need a switch to disconnect the ABS? Honestly, in snow, don't you want the wheels to lock and push snow?

That's just the point.

This afternoon, I was out driving and going around a long bend I ran into some slush on the road. The car did a beautiful drift and no lights came on.
Dunno. Maybe if I had paniced like many operators would have.

mad_machine wrote: need a switch to disconnect the ABS? Honestly, in snow, don't you want the wheels to lock and push snow?

If you only ever want to stop in a straight line, that method will stop you slightly sooner than ABS (though how much more quickly depends on how deep the snow is). If you want to get on the brakes and steer around the car that just slid into the intersection ahead of you, you don't want to lock the wheels. I'll gladly give up a couple of feet of braking in order to maintain directional control.

Bob