Regarding "The Answer"...

Hypothetically, when considering cost, condition, effort to prepare, and performance, what generation Miata would do best in stock class?

Current "Stock" or the proposed (and seems very likely to pass) 2014 "Street" rules?

The most recent proposal (V3 - in July 2013) has the NB joining the NA in ES for 2014, which has many current NA owners grumbling. On paper, it seems the NB will be "the car". Although I just noticed the FRS/BRZ has been moved to ES in this proposal...

Hard to say... and to be honest, I'd be careful about buying anything for autocross. At least as a long-term project. The chances are high things will get shuffled around at least once over the next year or three.

While we're on the subject, is anything changing in the 2014 proposals for Street Touring?

In reply to PHeller:

I'd really like to keep this discussion focused on Miata's in stock class. Please start another thread to get your question answered.

The FRSBRZ got removed in the August Fasttrack.

Nationally speaking. I think the "Answer" to have in ES will be the MR2 Spyder. Lighter than an NB Miata, More WHP Similar gearing to a six speed, a tiny bit wider and very similar cost to purchase. The only issue with the MR2 spyder is the in exhaust CAT that must be updated to the 2003+ design on the early cars.
For a few years in ES I imagine the R type miatas will remain competitive (When driven by a Borowski) while the MR2 spyders are developed. I do not think any Non Type R NA will have any chance to be competitive any longer.
Any softop NC with the LSD should be competitive in CS assuming they move the MSR to BS. I'm not sure if they where available but if a 5-speed with the LSD was available I would imagine that would be the car to have unless it has very narrow wheels. Although the 350Z is tough in this class.

Locally things change unless you run against a top dog in CS/ES. So much locally comes down to driver. I would think if you want to run "The answer" at autox I would pick a NA that is STS legal and do a mild STS build or Build a NB for STR. Sure you'll probably get Stomped if you dip your toe in the Deep end of the pool but it would be a very fun street car that could be modified to be a really good HPDE car. I think the new SCCA classing is going to move further away from the stock miatas being competitive.

In summary to answer your question directly I don't think any of them is. I think considering cost your most cost effective chance at competitive is a R package NA but It probably won't remain that way for long. 2nd best would be an STS NA. A 1999 NB in ES will probably do well but will cost about the same as the car that will likely be "the" car in the class (MR2 spyder). If the budget includes NC's they have a shot in CS but are significantly more expensive to buy/prep than NB/NA's.

Right now, an ES R-Package 94-97 is your best bet. Kind of hard to find, but if you find an A (?) Package, you can put one together for about $1,000 or less (not including purchase of the vehicle). Add in some Koni's (or better for more money), HoHo's, and you have a car that can win Nationals.

For CS, while the 99 Sport has a chance, it is really dominated by the MSR package NC, which is more money.

In the E-street proposal class, I think that the 99 Sport will be the Miata to have. Whether any Miata is the car to have remains to be seen. Keep in mind, I have not looked into what the particulars of the class are--maybe with the mods allowed the 03 Club Sport or the Mazdaspeeds will be better than the 99 Sport, but in CS that hasn't really proved to be the case.

Thanks guys. I wasn't up on rule changes. I guess I'm looking at next year for the most part. So I guess opinions need to be based on speculation of what the rules changes might result in. In any case, have at it!

Gee, you'd think on a forum where Miata is the answer to everything, that people would have more to say about this...

Sorry, I'd be posting a ton on this if it was two years ago. Unfortunately I haven't been keeping up with the results this year, or the rules changes that are coming. And honestly, it is probably still too hard to say. For instance, maybe the 6 speed will be the car to have since the allowance of taller wheels will do something to fix the gearing.

I'm still going to say 99 sport though. YMMV.

In reply to mtn:

I didn't mean to imply that what you said wasn't helpful - It was! I'm just surprised more people don't have something to say about it.
But for the sake of discussion, let's say the rules don't change what car is best. In that case, what car fits the bill as far as overall value?

In reply to bravenrace:

Honestly, there's a few factors at work here for low turnout. One is the proposed rules changes. Nobody has the answer on the answer because all of the previous data isn't good anymore. Street will be a completely different category than today's Stock (and way for the better IMO).

The other is people really aren't autocrossing SCCA competitively as much. Don't get me wrong, you still have your Nationals level guys and regulars, but looking at local (any local) car counts from 4-5-6 years ago and today and there's an obvious reduction, especially in anything Stock (and see above for the SCCA's response).

A smaller, but still there, factor is that Miata's are starting to get hard to come by for this sort of thing. Spec Pinata has been eating up NA's for years now, Chumpcar and Lemons took the bottom end of the pool away, and the advent of all of the swaps (FM) and kits (Exomotive) is taking another chunk out. Your clean, stock cars are now old enough to go back up the pricing curve so it's pricing people out of the market (that and the emergence of many other cars either down the curve or new cars taking people's attention).

I can't actually remember the last time i saw a Miata in a stock class.

Swank Force One wrote: I can't actually remember the last time i saw a Miata in a stock class.

You mean other than 5/6 trophy spots and the entire podium in ES, right?

mtn wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I can't actually remember the last time i saw a Miata in a stock class.

You mean other than 5/6 trophy spots and the entire podium in ES, right?

I mean locally, sorry. I haven't been to Nationals.

I suppose the answer to OP's question would lie within that data, though.

Looks like the answer is either a 94 or 96 Miata.

In reply to Swank Force One:

There were several of the at the event I ran at this past Sunday, although there were many more running STS.
If stock isn't the class to run, then tell me what is. Or if the there is a better choice of car to run stock class I'd like to hear about it. I only picked the miata and stock class because I used to run stock class years ago (this was my first time autocrossing myself (my boys have been doing it for 5 years or so) in about 9-10 years), and I like that it's more about the driving than doing a bunch of things to the car. Frankly I'm tired of working on cars, but I love driving them. I've considered running my BMW, but I don't think it's a competitive car in it's class and I don't want to put the money into it to replace perfectly good parts.
One thing about Miata's I should ask is do any of them come with power steering? Running my CRX killed my shoulders (torn rotator cuffs), not to mention the rest of my body. I'm looking to run something that isn't too expensive, has power steering or is easy to steer, and has a relatively comfortable ride. That's another thing that lead me to stock class. I'm not set on running a miata at all, but as I was working as the starter, I noticed the 4 or 5 stock class miatas were running pretty fast. I like rear wheel drive, and it seemed like something to look into. Any other suggestions would be appreciated also.
The bottom line is that I want to start autocrossing again, but since I'm older things have changed, and I'm looking for a fairly comfortable way to do it and still be competitive. I'm constrained by budget because I'm not willing to sell any of my current vehicles to do it.

In reply to bravenrace:

Yes, Miata's can be had with power steering. You need an "A-Spec" car in the NA generation (mine was). They are a lot heavier than any other NA Miata though as they have a lot of other power accessories (windows, mirrors, A/C, etc). The later "M-Edition" ' s might have had PS as well (along with the Torsen diff).

Honestly, being that you haven't run in years, you would be better off taking a car you own (and are familiar with) and getting seat time for a season before buying another. You won't be competitive for wins anyway, and it will give you a chance to see how the new rules shake out.

In reply to Javelin:

I won STS on Sunday. Like riding a bike....Which coincidentally I also hurts now.

How competitive do you want to be? And on what level (local, regional, national?)

If you want to win a trophy at nationals, I'd say to run your BMW and wait for the classes to shake out. If you want to win at the local events, and assuming there isn't a hot shoe in the class, I'd say get a 5-speed NB. But this is all still speculation.

I'd find a clean 1.8 car with a torsen. The rest is details, unless you're going to get really serious about it. I have a hard time believing that you'd notice the difference locally unless you have an unusually competitive region. We have a local in a 1997 "Speedster Edition" (base 1.8 car, w/torsen and 15x6.5 wheels) that beats up on all sorts of 'superior' Miata's and FRS'. A 1999 Sport would probably be 'ideal' (has power steering too), but at the end of the day, based on your question of "considering cost etc." - I'd recommend the cleanest torsen equipped Miata you can find and which meets your budget. You'll want to replace shocks/tires and maybe bushings no matter what you end up with.

Its not something I have to decide on right now. I was just trying to get an idea of what to start looking for, not knowing about the rule changes coming up (didn't renew my SCCA membership this year).
There's only one more event this year, and I'll probably run my BMW the way it is just to get an idea of how it would do. Then I can figure out what to do next year. There's a strong possibility I will have surgery on one of my shoulders over the winter, so I should probably wait to see how that goes anyway.

I run STS, Base model miata with Power Steering (it was an option), no ABS, no power anything.

STS recipe.

Koni Race Shocks Front, sport rears.

Coilovers 700f/450r springrates

Header/ cat / catback

Some form of Cold Air Intake

ECU (megasquirt in a box or AEM piggyback) + tuning (+ timing bump)

Crank pulley (leightweight, underdrive?)

Lightweight 15x7.5" rims with tire du jour

Stock front pads / HP+ rears (maybe HPS fronts)

NB tophat swap for more travel.

Racingbeat Front bar (no rear).

Racing seat with bracket built to minimum weight.

CAR CANNOT HAVE A TORSEN.

Honestly, either build STS, STR (Torsen NA, or NB or NC Hard to compete with S2K's and so on), or get a 99 sport to roll the dice for E-street next year.

STS is a developed class and miatas still have a rough time with civics on occasion. The pointy end of the field is rather sharp.

STR, as indicated is a rough shot for the car. You will be developing trying to beat slightly better cars for the class.

E-street. Who really knows if the 95R hot setup will carry over to the street proposal or if the 99 sport will be better. I don't have the data to make a good guess. I doubt you would get slaughtered locally in either case if you are a good driver.

Does pioneering appeal to you or would you rather use a tried and true recipe? STS has data out there. Check Miata.net and they share setups.

If I had it to do over again, and autocross was the primary focus of my car buying, I would look for an STS eligible NA Miata. Assuming the rule changes go into effect in ES, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a really hard time keeping up with the NB/MR2's that are migrating down from CS. (I've got a 94 M Edition - not STS eligible because of the Torsen). Sure, a great ES driver can beat an average CS driver, but, on the whole, at least at our local events, CS times are 1 to 2 seconds faster on average than ES times. The STS guys turn really fast times and actually PAX pretty well too. Seems like STS may be the "wave of the future" for NA Miatas. Unfortunately, I can't run there.