Finally got the wideband back (long story) and here is the tale. My seat of the pants "why does thing fall on its face at 4500 RPM" is right on. Even with the new turbo and the bigger AMM. The AFR goes from 12.5ish all of the way to 10.5 when I hit 4500-5000 and stays there until the shift. It only recovers to around 11.5:1 at that point. Ideas?
Leaky intercooler maybe? It's gotta be after the AMM if it's a leak, right?
tuna55 wrote: Finally got the wideband back (long story) and here is the tale. My seat of the pants "why does thing fall on its face at 4500 RPM" is right on. Even with the new turbo and the bigger AMM. The AFR goes from 12.5ish all of the way to 10.5 when I hit 4500-5000 and stays there until the shift. It only recovers to around 11.5:1 at that point. Ideas? Leaky intercooler maybe? It's gotta be after the AMM if it's a leak, right?
Exactly how big is the turbo on this thing, anyways? I dip to 10.5 and even under at the top end of my tach, and i don't get the "fall on its face" feeling on my car.
Yes, it is a different car, but that AFR number is not outside the realms of possibility or even normality on factory boosted cars.
Yeah, you should use the MR2 Trubo Mailing List method of tuning (my observations from reading the mailing list back in the day): Crank up the boost, start out really fat on top and start leaning it out until a piece of the piston blows out the exhaust port, then rich it up one and you're there.
Chipped by a guy on turbobricks for fuel and ignition 16T version of the TD04 turbo rather than the stock 13C Boost raised to 17 psi rather than the stock 7 bigger injectors (not that big) 3" AMM blah blah blah number
I doubt it's supposed to just take the 12.5 and shuttle it down to 10.5 just because 5000 RPM came about, but I guess. It definitely feels like it falls on its face at the same time, and the boost drops off a little
Have you tried the other chip/ECU? TheLostArtOf is supposed to be "better" but if you still have the other one it wouldn't hurt to try it.
tuna55 wrote: Chipped by a guy on turbobricks for fuel and ignition 16T version of the TD04 turbo rather than the stock 13C Boost raised to 17 psi rather than the stock 7 bigger injectors (not that big) 3" AMM blah blah blah number I doubt it's supposed to just take the 12.5 and shuttle it down to 10.5 just because 5000 RPM came about, but I guess. It definitely feels like it falls on its face at the same time, and the boost drops off a little
What happens if you put the stock injectors back in? Do you lean out too much elsewhere?
What are the specs on the turbo?
There's very few stock turbo vehicles that i've driven that have NOT fallen on their face in higher rpms with a stock or stock-ish turbo.
My car doesn't fall on it's face at higher RPMS. The turbo is stock (well, lightened wheels, balanced, but that's it), stock injectors, stock ECU. It pulls strong to the rev limiter.
Dr. Hess wrote: My car doesn't fall on it's face at higher RPMS. The turbo is stock (well, lightened wheels, balanced, but that's it), stock injectors, stock ECU. It pulls strong to the rev limiter.
Heh, if you're talking about the Lotus, i imagine that's a bit different. 
Junkyard_Dog wrote: Have you tried the other chip/ECU? TheLostArtOf is supposed to be "better" but if you still have the other one it wouldn't hurt to try it.
I am totally lost on the "other" one. What it is, where it is, what it looks like, etc. I would hope that the problem lies elsewhere, though, because this is certainly suboptimal.
I was expecting a video of a guy named Rich running a turbo brick at high RPM. Man am I disappointed. 
Weren't there extra ECUs that came with the car? One stocker, one chipped by Hi-Tuning USA, and TheLostArtOf one in the car. Maybe I just changed the chip out but I swore the other chipped ECU went with the car. Look in the crates o' parts that came with the car.
bravenrace wrote: I was expecting a video of a guy named Rich running a turbo brick at high RPM. Man am I disappointed.
HA!
Junkyard_Dog wrote: Weren't there extra ECUs that came with the car? One stocker, one chipped by Hi-Tuning USA, and TheLostArtOf one in the car. Maybe I just changed the chip out but I swore the other chipped ECU went with the car. Look in the crates o' parts that came with the car.
There are a bunch. I didn't loose them, I just have no idea what any of them are, where they go, or what they do. That's all. I still am doubting that this is a chip issue, but I may try it anyway.
The chipped ECU should have writing on the case in black magic marker exactly whats in it. If none do look for a small box with the chip in it. TLAO chips have a leaner top end iirc, but if its actually richer it could be your problem.
I've forgotten my lingo- turboBrick?
Anyway- couple of things:
1) If it's a stock ECU, then going to 10.5:1 is more than normal- I would fully expect it. It runs rich to keep parts alive- richer = cooler- whether it's the turbo or various components, down to 9.5:1 is commonly used to keep parts alive.
2) it shouldn't fall on it's face too badly at 10.5:1- that's kind of odd. It will be less than 12.5:1 for sure, but it's not going to totally fall apart.
Since I can't recall the turbo brick reference- is that a MAF/AM set up? You are looking for leaks- do you know what your compressor bypass is doing? If that's leaking, well that will change things, too.
If it's chipped, I would hope they would lean it out some, but not too much. Again, it's pretty easy to over temp your hardware to fail. Just be careful how lean you go.
Junkyard_Dog wrote: The chipped ECU should have writing on the case in black magic marker exactly whats in it. If none do look for a small box with the chip in it. TLAO chips have a leaner top end iirc, but if its actually richer it could be your problem.
Who is that one chipped by?
alfadriver wrote: I've forgotten my lingo- turboBrick? Anyway- couple of things: 1) If it's a stock ECU, then going to 10.5:1 is more than normal- I would fully expect it. It runs rich to keep parts alive- richer = cooler- whether it's the turbo or various components, down to 9.5:1 is commonly used to keep parts alive. 2) it shouldn't fall on it's face too badly at 10.5:1- that's kind of odd. It will be less than 12.5:1 for sure, but it's not going to totally fall apart. Since I can't recall the turbo brick reference- is that a MAF/AM set up? You are looking for leaks- do you know what your compressor bypass is doing? If that's leaking, well that will change things, too. If it's chipped, I would *hope* they would lean it out some, but not too much. Again, it's pretty easy to over temp your hardware to fail. Just be careful how lean you go.
It is chipped, and I wouldn't be that surprised about the 10.5 if it didn't jolt there so suddenly. It's like a switch: at a certain RPM the thing just jumps from 12.5 to 10.5.
What is timing doing?
Rich in boost?
Keep turning up the boost level until you reach the AFR you want.
:)
tuna55 wrote:Junkyard_Dog wrote: The chipped ECU should have writing on the case in black magic marker exactly whats in it. If none do look for a small box with the chip in it. TLAO chips have a leaner top end iirc, but if its actually richer it could be your problem.Who is that one chipped by?
Hi-Tuning USA long time TB supplier. Was THE place to get chips before TheLostArtOf made his own and started selling them. You try TLAO on TB? He might have some suggestions.
m4ff3w wrote: Rich in boost? Keep turning up the boost level until you reach the AFR you want. :)
You know...
tuna55 wrote:m4ff3w wrote: Rich in boost? Keep turning up the boost level until you reach the AFR you want. :)You know...
That's what I did. I ended up being at ~21psi on the 16t with the stock chip, V-15 Turbo cam, intercooler, and 42# CFI injectors.
Before getting into the management, consider: With motor not running, pressurize the charge system with a supply of regulated compressed air while carefully monitoring with an air pressure gauge that is part of the circuit as to not blow anything up. I went to 18 psi on a 16psi setup. Squirt soapy water at all the hissing you hear and to locate the dozens of leaks. Fix them all and then see where you are at.
edit: fixed at least some of my typwzos...
Junkyard_Dog wrote:tuna55 wrote:Hi-Tuning USA long time TB supplier. Was THE place to get chips before TheLostArtOf made his own and started selling them. You try TLAO on TB? He might have some suggestions.Junkyard_Dog wrote: The chipped ECU should have writing on the case in black magic marker exactly whats in it. If none do look for a small box with the chip in it. TLAO chips have a leaner top end iirc, but if its actually richer it could be your problem.Who is that one chipped by?
He says check for leaks... and buy his ignition chips.
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