Riddle me - trackable car for $6k, non-convertible, room to carry a full set of tires, RWD

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to oldeskewltoy: Well, I do prefer the looks of the coupe like yours, but the liftback would make a nice oddball track car. How much fab work is needed to get a 4AGE in there, or is it more of a bolt-on swap? I know I can handle the electronics side of it, but would be a little concerned about the mechanical side. In general I would prefer to avoid boost on something like this. I assume that with all of them, you can swap in AE86 suspension components, correct?

Look for a 1983... it comes with a 4AC (SOHC cam "little" brother of 4AGE). So little fab work, except wiring!

As to swapping suspension... the mounts are all the same... but there is a difference needed to be accounted for.... The E7 car is wider at the struts by 13mm(1/2"). The suspension lower control arm mounts the same. This means that if you swap an AE86 strut in(because it has larger stock brakes), you would automatically have 6mm positive camber. Adjustable strut tops, or adjustable lower control arms can remedy this. OR you can have the original strut tube brake mount customized and then not worry.

The above is because the kingpin angle on the E7 and AE86 are slightly different, the E7 strut is a tiny bit more vertical.

Or as usual the answer is always miata

G_Body_Man wrote: Mercedes C230 Kompressor hatch with the 6MT.

Inferior car to the 318ti. Also not as easy to upgrade.

I vote 318ti with a m52b28 aluminum block swap(with s52 goodies), its about as simple as putting together a Lego set by the instructions. Also should be easily done in your price range.

If I loosen the RWD requirement, obviously the Civic hatches and Integras are a contender.

Anybody got an opinion on a Mini Cooper S? I can find 2005/6s just about scraping the top of my budget by now if I don't go JCW. I have driven one on the track years ago and kinda liked it (although it had trouble getting the power down in the rain).

The reliability issues and maintenance scare the crap out of me on those. I'd much rather add power to a Civic.

You can find a crazypants fast already-swapped & prepped civic right at the top of your budget.

Cooper S: I've co-driven one in STX trim. Needs a limited slip otherwise that inside tire howls the whole way around the course. The guy bought it to replace his Celica, like the one I pictured in another post. Since he's on street tires, he doesn't need to haul the extra set but there seems to be massive room with the back seat folded. It is a fantastic weekend car. Honda/Acura is an easy choice.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

If you're going to deal with ze Germans need for maintenance, I'd stick to an older Porsche or a BMW that you can actually maintain. The Mini's seem to be prone to failures due to poor engineering versus poor maintenance and that doesn't inspire confidence when it comes to track day cars.

Rx8 if you HAVE to have RWD. Otherwise an integra will do all you need and still have money left over. Double wishbone all around, good power (especially a GS-R), great parts availability, and Honda reliability.

E36 M3/4/5

I can confirm that a 4th-gen F-body can carry four 315/35-17s internally. One on the passenger seat, two on the rear seat, one under the hatch. All your tools, helmet, and other stuff will also fit. I've done it for years.

However, I doubt all the tires will fit if you install a cage or even a roll bar.

You can find LS1/T56 cars for under $6k now.

Edit to add:

I can also confirm you can fit four 225/50-14 Hoosiers in an SW20. One in the frunk, one behind the passenger seat, two on the passenger seat. Tools in the trunk. Not sure if that's the MR2 you have, OP, but if so, you may already have your answer.

With all this E46/E36, and IS300 talk. Why not the Infiniti G35?

Coupes came with an LSD and could fit 4 tires in it. 3 in the back seat and 1 in the trunk. I know it fits since that's what I do at work. With so many coupes that came with a LSD, I'm sure you can find a junkyard one and swap it into the sedan for some fun. I kinda want one now as a more comfortable E36 alternative.

drdisque wrote: First thing that came to mind when I read this thread title was "3rd Gen F-Body"

They're bad cars, plus, they're overpriced constantly.

In reply to wbjones:

Cheapo P71: $1200. ADTR supercharger kit: $5800. Slaying people left right and centre with an ex cop car? Priceless.

I thought about doing a 'merica version of the ring taxi with a P71 swap in a manual trans and get 4 racing seats in it

Jaynen wrote: I thought about doing a 'merica version of the ring taxi with a P71 swap in a manual trans and get 4 racing seats in it

Like this

Seriously, Tim, you seem uncharacteristically all over the map on this. You've asked plenty of what car type questions in the past, but here you seem vary vague on what you really want. Can you put down some definitive does and don'ts?

Will this become your only track car?
Will it only be used in poor weather to get to the track
What rules out your existing cars?
What's too much or too little in power to weight ratio terms?
What are the limits for consumables? (Pony / muscle cars eat more brakes and tires than Miata's)
What's too heavy?
What’s too small?
What track prep are you considering?

I think you need to pin some of these things down in your own mind first or you might find yourself unhappy and looking to flip (poor word for a track car, maybe sell on) yet another track car.

I'm guessing, based on his own suggestions, that he'd like something a bit more lightweight and tossable then a P71 or Pony car.

If it weren't for the drift tax and drifters having destroyed many good examples a 240sx with an SR20 swap down the road would've been the answer. I'd still be Starlet hunting, or maybe FX-16 if going FWD

captdownshift wrote: If it weren't for the drift tax and drifters having destroyed many good examples a 240sx with an SR20 swap down the road would've been the answer.

They are pricey for what they are, but you can get or create a track-ready 240SX under his budget easily.

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/cto/4804617164.html Undo/sell some mods and plenty left to whatever track mods you want.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4785089703.html
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4780080985.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/4836936673.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/4834510882.html

That's like 5 mins of looking. I'm sure there are better deals out there.

Related: Not sure why everyone bitches so much about the "drift tax". People like these because they are good cars. Do we complain about the tax on Integras, CRXs, Civic Hatches? No. At least not when looking to race or track them.

assuming you can find a 240SX without having to pay the drift tax

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Seriously, Tim, you seem uncharacteristically all over the map on this. You've asked plenty of what car type questions in the past, but here you seem vary vague on what you really want. Can you put down some definitive does and don'ts?

I was trying to keep a more open mind. I had a suspicion that with my usual requirements (RWD, tossable, Miata but turned up to 11 - yeah, I know, that's an S2k) I was artificially restricting myself.

Part of the problem is that the desire for a car that I can just drive through a parts catalogue and end up with something reasonably trackable clashes with my liking of oddball cars. That doesn't help with the all over the place part.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Will this become your only track car?

Possibly yes, but the initial idea is to at least have a car that can serve as a back up for when the dedicated track car is broken.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Will it only be used in poor weather to get to the track

Not really. I eventually want to end up with a dedicated track day car but if the past is an indicator of the future, I need a backup because even the more dedicated ones seem to be "under construction" more often than I really care for. Partially a function of me trying to do the work myself and my utter lack of time.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What rules out your existing cars?

I'm trying to trim the fleet, for starters. I'm planning to sell the Evo, I don't fit the CRX with a helmet on and the MR2 seems to be a perma-project. Also, the good mechanics I just for the bigger jobs have closed shop after messing up several of my and my wife's cars (including the MR2...) so I need something that I can work on myself and only invest reasonable amounts of time in.

Like, well, a Miata (which I can kinda wrench on in my sleep) if I would be able to comfortably fit the darn thing. Which I'm not.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What's too much or too little in power to weight ratio terms?

Something in the vicinity of an RX8 or the MR2 is kinda the sweet spot. C5 'vettes are probably on the "too much" side and an old Celica with a 22R on the "too little" side.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What are the limits for consumables? (Pony / muscle cars eat more brakes and tires than Miata's)

Would be nice if I only had to buy one set of tires annually for track use, but I'm OK with two and a brake job or two. Good parts availability is important, though. These days I just don't have the time anymore to chase down elusive parts.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What's too heavy?

The aforementioned P71s. I tend to prefer smaller, more tossable European-sized cars. Like, I would track an M3 but not and M5.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What’s too small?

The interior of a Miata. I need more space length wise. I'm OK with a two seater, but as mentioned I need to be able to transport a set of tires in the car without ending up with one wheel on my lap if I don't want to have a track season that runs from late April to early November.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: What track prep are you considering?

Suspension, brakes, tires, bolt ons. If it turn it into my only track car, a welded in roll bar.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I think you need to pin some of these things down in your own mind first or you might find yourself unhappy and looking to flip (poor word for a track car, maybe sell on) yet another track car.

I agree. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. Probably should've called it "help me open my mind".

Well I think we all enjoy these types of threads anyway :) RX8 sounds like a great candidate for sure. For me it would be RX8 or E36 M3 and I would choose based on what I was comfortable working with, which enthusiast community better seemed to inform me/fit my vibe, and if there was a local shop to back me up with more experience of one vs the other.

wbjones wrote: assuming you can find a 240SX without having to pay the drift tax

When ok-condition autos are going for $2-3k where you live, you know there's the drift tax in full effect.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Sounds exactly like a 924S/944

They are Spec-raced and raced in SCCA ITS, etc all over the country, raced in LeMons, have been raced since their inception, performance parts aren't hard to find, engines are stupid reliable and well understood and are DIY friendly to maintain.

The cars are a bit more heavily built to withstand some of the punishment dealt to them on a track (factory oil coolers, large radiators, power steering cooling, decent brakes). They are sized for much larger people (I fit a Miata perfectly, while I swim in a 944 and have friends who race them that are 6'3")

Of course if you go with a 924S that is an oddball to see on a track compared to its curvier cousin, the 944.

Power is as easy as a 3.0L 968/951 turbo swap away or if you want to have stupid fun, LSx swap kits are available and are well understood/documented.

I do know of a cheap well sorted complete ITA DA integra for sale that's under budget if interested

Fox body mustang hatchback. Find one that has been allready built well for track days (rear suspension geometry fixed and decent brakes + usual springs/shocks/sways)

As far as SN-95, fitting tires into mine for auto-x (275's on 17x9) involves one in the trunk (only one will fit), two in the back seat, and one either wedged behind the passenger seat or on the passenger seat.

Only drawbacks for the fox solution, chassis mods to make it fun, fuel consumption, tire prices (my Miata is SO MUCH CHEAPER ), and brakes.

You can make as much power as you could wish for building the motor and it will be pretty inexpensive (as domestic V8's can be) as long as you dont go power-crazy (mid-300s should be a fun power level and not hard to reach)

Then again, kinda pricy and takes some effort. Perhaps buy an ex spec-rx7?

In reply to Apexcarver:

I'd go for headers, cobra manifold, gt40p top end, and a tune. That should get you 260-270 horses. Subframe connecters are a must, control arms and high quality shocks help a lot.