Things are getting interesting. While it will be out of my price range by the time it comes to fruition, this would be a dream vehicle for me. And Rivian looks like it is (a) definitely coming to fruition, and (b) going to avoid the industry pitfalls that Tesla keeps putting on themselves.
Ford wants EV150's and they want them now.
The Rivian A1T that's in development has been compared to the Warthog from Halo, so of course I want to see what that's like.
it's no surprise, given that Rivian's proof-of-concept powertrain mules were F150's.
I really like the Rivian stuff. It may be too much for me to afford....but it might not be. Everytime I see heavy hitters like Ford or Amazon investing it seems like it might be a little more possible.
If you can make an electric 4x4 that can tow a 6k lb boat 300 miles....I'd be looking at it real hard for anything under about $75k.
Interesting! I get that rivian has built an electric truck. But I don't feel like designing an electric truck is worth half a bill.
To me, Tesla's value is in 3 main areas (that basically all mainstream news can't seem to comprehend).
1. Its autonomous fleet is already driving around on the roads in huge numbers, getting bigger every day. As soon as Tesla is approved, they hit a button and all existing Tesla cars with approving owners suddenly become driverless taxis. This is a GIANT extra revenue stream potential for both Tesla and the people who currently own the cars.
2. Its battery and solar cell production capabilities. Even if the cars flunk, I bet vehicle manufacturers will be buying Tesla batteries for years to come. And solar cells are just hitting the tipping point of being the most cost effective method of power generation.
3. Its autonomous technology. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Telsa can drive you from a to b, all you have to do is watch over its shoulder. The next closest is Ford? and all they can do is parallel park for you. Sure google can drive the cars too but I don't see many google cars on the road.
If Rivian had any of the above 3, I'd say they are a good buy.
In reply to Robbie :
Don't forget, Ford sells a metric crapton of trucks. So if they can also end up with a good electric truck to sell that the other big truck builders don't have yet, that means they can sell even more trucks. And that might be worth a good chunk of $$$ to them.
rslifkin said:In reply to Robbie :
Don't forget, Ford sells a metric crapton of trucks. So if they can also end up with a good electric truck to sell that the other big truck builders don't have yet, that means they can sell even more trucks. And that might be worth a good chunk of $$$ to them.
Yeah, I think that is exactly the difference. Who is selling the 'best' truck, and who is re-inventing the entire world of personal transportation? Both may be viable business models moving forward into the future, but I see a lot of people who think that making the 'best' truck/car/EV means competing with Tesla when in fact that is absolutely not the case.
ultraclyde said:I really like the Rivian stuff. It may be too much for me to afford....but it might not be. Everytime I see heavy hitters like Ford or Amazon investing it seems like it might be a little more possible.
If you can make an electric 4x4 that can tow a 6k lb boat 300 miles....I'd be looking at it real hard for anything under about $75k.
I'd be happy with 100 mile range and a half ton bed capacity. Like finding a way to get a loan to buy it happy, like I've been weighing the options of stripping a few leafs to put under my ranger kind of interested as well.
I also think Rivian has the best looking truck platform at the moment, even compared to the new ranger.
FWIW, we have friends at Rivian. It was nice to catch up at the New York auto show.
If nothing else, this is a good hedge against their existing business, so it's a good move. Hopefully this will speed up their time to market and help lower the initial cost given Ford's manufacturing and distribution infrastructure.
Are we sure this isn't a nefarious plan to lock up the technology like they did with the 100 mpg carburetor?
In reply to russde :
Since the 100mpg carburetor never existed, I doubt there’s any comparison.
Who's Rivan using as their battery supplier? (Looks like speculation from import documents point at LG)
If that's the case, Audi is currently running into a bunch of trouble getting cells from LG and that's currently hampering production of the E-Tron. The worst part is that Audi is being forced to pay market price, which is rapidly increasing as Li-Ion production hasn't scaled to meet demand yet.
Tesla, being vertically integrated, is at a huge advantage in this instance. So if they're going to introduce a truck, it better happen soon.
Ford, from what I understand, bought a stake in Rivan to get at the "skateboard" platform. The electric F-150 is going to be a different platform. It's looking like GM really missed out on this one.
I see this more like the Ford/Mazda relationship. Mazda brought the MZR Disi to market early to work out the bugs then Ford made the Ecoboost from it.
In reply to The0retical :
Yup, GM's current direction is who the heck knows what. Meanwhile Ford/Lincoln is kocking things out of the park...even if Wall Street hasn't figured it out yet.
Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field and my electric truck goes dead. A gas can is a heck of a lot easier to find and use than a mile or 2 long extension cord.
2-3 years back a Ford quarterly report showed they made 14k profit from each track sold. This vastly outpaces the profitability of anything else they sell. They HAVE to have a successful ev truck.
Side note - the Rivian team is REALLY sharp by comparison to other EV startups. Yes I would rock one of those sexy beasts.
carguy123 said:Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field and my electric truck goes dead. A gas can is a heck of a lot easier to find and use than a mile or 2 long extension cord.
Do you run out of fuel often while working in the field?
I think electric trucks have a very good potential for a large section of the 1/2 ton marketplace. Sure, we can all come up with situations that won’t work (I own my truck specifically for interstate towing) but there are a LOT of situations where they will. If I were a tradesman, it would be worth a very close look. I’m glad to see Rivian getting some investment and Ford taking this seriously.
carguy123 said:Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field and my electric truck goes dead. A gas can is a heck of a lot easier to find and use than a mile or 2 long extension cord.
“Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field when the fuel injector in my truck goes dead. A carburetor is a lot easier to repair with a pocket knife than it is to find the nearest parts store”
”Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field when my truck gets stuck in the mud. A horse is a lot easier to get through tough terrain”
It is a tool, like anything. I don’t buy a Miata to tow a horse trailer. I don’t but a 3/4 ton pickup to take autocrossing. Somehow, each are good at what they do and have their purpose. If you can’t plan to be charged, or you can’t charge it, then it isn’t the truck for you.
carguy123 said:Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field and my electric truck goes dead. A gas can is a heck of a lot easier to find and use than a mile or 2 long extension cord.
Jerry can + a Honda generator or some solar panels maybe?
Keith Tanner said:carguy123 said:Yeah, I can just see me working out in a field and my electric truck goes dead. A gas can is a heck of a lot easier to find and use than a mile or 2 long extension cord.
Do you run out of fuel often while working in the field?
I think electric trucks have a very good potential for a large section of the 1/2 ton marketplace. Sure, we can all come up with situations that won’t work (I own my truck specifically for interstate towing) but there are a LOT of situations where they will. If I were a tradesman, it would be worth a very close look. I’m glad to see Rivian getting some investment and Ford taking this seriously.
And let's face it. The huge majority of pickup owners are neither towing nor hauling stuff. nor driving out into the wilderness. most of them are just doing the same commute that people with Accords, Teslas, or SUVs are doing. So an EV truck makes perfect sense.
Touchy much are we?
EV truck makes less sense than and EV car used in the city. While many trucks are used in the city they are designed as workhorses and as such many of them are used in less populous areas and out in the fields. You can get gas, but you can't get electricity.
Charge a truck with a portable generator? Got all night and half the next day?
In reply to carguy123 :
Then don't buy one yet. No one is forcing them out into the world.
For the majority of truck sales that aren't actual work trucks, they are a perfectly fine thing. I would actually prefer in my situation where the truck is pretty much around just to do truck things. Hardware store, lumber yard, gardening center, scrap runs, moving furniture or appliances, nothing inherently far away. Electric would be perfectly fine in that sense as long as it could handle the payload.
They aren't yet for interstate towing or camping, but give it a few generations for the stuff in the semi trucks to tickle into consumer grade. It's a perfectly viable option for a lot of people.
In reply to carguy123 :
Not so much touchy, just tired of hearing an argument stated so many times before that comes across as ignorant. Most trucks are not used as back country work horses. They are used as daily drivers and occasionally weekend warrior steeds. Which was exactly the sort of use Rivian seems to be pushing.
I saw the Rivian today at the NYIAS. They definitely have some financial backing right now - there were more people on their side interacting for two vehicles on display than some manufacturers had for a dozen. The trucks are massive. I'd like to see a van version.
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