Autoblog reports that Car and Driver reports that Mazda is working on new Rotaries.
Hybrid is an interesting one.
Autoblog reports that Car and Driver reports that Mazda is working on new Rotaries.
Hybrid is an interesting one.
I used to love a nice rotary 25 years ago. But that is when they seemed so much smoother and more powerful than small piston engines. That advantage is long gone. I can't see any reason other than nostalgia to come out with a new rotary.
They seem at least to me on paper to be a natural match with a CVT transmission but no one gone there yet.
It seems to me that with direct injection and the application of some alternative materials, there's still an advantage to be had in a performance application.
Mazda has always been working on different types of rotary engines, it's just a matter of getting them into a real world application.
Rotary engines have their place in the modern world. But maybe not as a conventional car engine.
I've long wondered if they could use the rotary's prodigious amount of waste exhaust to spin a turbine that would be attached to a generator.
With multipoint direct injection and the newer laser spark ignitors, which could be placed at multiple places in the combustion chamber I wouldn't count the rotary as down and out.
These technologies currently exist and are being adapted for future use by all the manufacturers, they just happen to have HUGE advantages in a rotary over incremental advantages in a piston engine.
It's compact size and low weight also make it a good choice for the hybrids.
JamesMcD wrote: I've long wondered if they could use the rotary's prodigious amount of waste exhaust to spin a turbine that would be attached to a generator.
They did that with some WW2 big bomber engines. I can't remember which ones, but it was pretty cool.
JamesMcD wrote: I've long wondered if they could use the rotary's prodigious amount of waste exhaust to spin a turbine that would be attached to a generator.
Like... a turbo, right? 
Conquest351 wrote:JamesMcD wrote: I've long wondered if they could use the rotary's prodigious amount of waste exhaust to spin a turbine that would be attached to a generator.They did that with some WW2 big bomber engines. I can't remember which ones, but it was pretty cool.
Wright R3350 turbo-compounds. Had three turbines on the back of the engine that were attached to a fluid coupling.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
Yeah, a turbo(battery)charger
I'm not surprised. Having driven rotary-powered Mazdas off and on for the last 30 years, I'm still sure that one day they will replace reciprocating piston engines in a majority of applications.
last i heard about development with the wankel was several years ago, and it was that they were getting big efficiency gains from them running on hydrogen rather than the usual hydrogen fuel cell setup.
i wonder if similar gains could be had via propane?
Seems to me that given modern advances in computer modelling and materials technology, there's a lot of room to develop the rotary. The RENESIS was already a big step over the 13B but Mazda went relatively conservative with it. I wouldn't mind a 400HP direct injection turbo 2-rotor with apex seals that lasted 200,000mi.
Dear Mazda stop wasting time on the rotary, please. You should have spent the effort on a hard top Miata coupe ala the new BRZ.
I dunno. Reciprocating technology has come so far in the last few years - variable intakes, variable cams, direct injection, et cetera. It's not too much of a reach to think that rotarys could see similar leaps.
In reply to GTwannaB:
Rotary engines for the generator on a hybrid vehicle are excellent matches. So good that even GM and Toyota want them. The rotary is not dead, long live the rotary!
My guess is, if as much R&D money had been put in the rotary engine as has been put in piston engines in the last 50 years, the rotary would be half the size, making twice the power and lasting twice as long, just like the piston engines.
Every manufacturer is doing engine R&D on piston engines, Mazda has to go it alone on the rotary.
Edited for a spelling issue.
Toyman's on the money. The rotary has a lot going for it, but Mazda's R&D budget for it is probably about what GM spends on fancy coffee for the CEOs while they jet to Washington to beg for taxpayer bailout money. I remember reading that the original development 'team' was basically one guy who could borrow engineers from other departments and he was the one who figured out the apex seal chatter problem and how to fix it, making the corner seals last, stuff like that. Since his pioneering work, the only real change has been the side exhaust port which bumped the NA Renesis power output to almost the same as the FD RX7, but without needing boost. There's a lot of mileage left in that design.
Toyman01 wrote: My guess is, if as much R&D money had been put in the rotary engine as has been put in piston engines in the last 50 years, the rotary would be half the size, making twice the power and lasting twice as long, just like the piston engines. Every manufacturer is doing engine R&D on piston engines, Mazda has to go it alone on the rotary. Edited for a spelling issue.
I think you have this too. There are inherent issues, but there are also inherent benefits. Parts count alone is a huge savings. It's one of those projects that, assuming I was independently wealthy, I would volunteer to help develop.
Otto Maddox wrote: I used to love a nice rotary 25 years ago. But that is when they seemed so much smoother and more powerful than small piston engines. That advantage is long gone. I can't see any reason other than nostalgia to come out with a new rotary.
It is astounding how much NVH in the rotary comes from the exhaust. My car was transformed from Tempo-grade paintshaker vibrations to modern car "wineglasses on the hood" smoothness with the simple addition of a Racing Beat exhaust system, which is somehow as quiet as a stock exhaust despite being a straight-through system.
Rotaries suck at low load, they shine at high load.
Audi is working on a plug-in hybrid that uses a small Wankel as the range extender. Run it under a good amount of load or don't run it at all, exactly what the little buggers like.
GTwannaB wrote: Dear Mazda stop wasting time on the rotary, please. You should have spent the effort on a hard top Miata coupe ala the new BRZ.
Yeah, but what if they make a hardtop Miata and put a 250HP 9000RPM rotary in it?
Strizzo wrote: last i heard about development with the wankel was several years ago, and it was that they were getting big efficiency gains from them running on hydrogen rather than the usual hydrogen fuel cell setup. i wonder if similar gains could be had via propane?
Might be. Supposedly the rotaries big achilles heel is a super large "combustion chamber" that wastes a ton of heat. Run a cool burning fuel and that disadvantage gets much smaller.
DaewooOfDeath wrote:Strizzo wrote: last i heard about development with the wankel was several years ago, and it was that they were getting big efficiency gains from them running on hydrogen rather than the usual hydrogen fuel cell setup. i wonder if similar gains could be had via propane?Might be. Supposedly the rotaries big achilles heel is a super large "combustion chamber" that wastes a ton of heat. Run a cool burning fuel and that disadvantage gets much smaller.
Or direct inject and fire it at multiple points in combustion chamber and add efficiencies.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Rotary engines have their place in the modern world. But maybe not as a conventional car engine.
http://www.uavenginesltd.co.uk/
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