R&T made me really, really sad with a hot take on sports cars...and they might be right

In reply to racerdave600 : indeed what are the alternatives?  HR controls employment and they need some easy way to eliminate most applicants. 

Their ideal candidate is a Harvard graduate with 7-10 years experience great verifiable references and willing to work at entry level wages. lacking that they will take Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, or Norte Dam.  

Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Graham Bell wouldn’t make it.  

In reply to frenchyd :

Those requirements are only there because there's an over supply problem at the moment. The Late Gen-X and early Millennial generations were told that going to college was their ticket to a better life. Colleges responded, aided by guaranteed cheap money from the fed, by raising the price of admission in order to build new facilities to attract those prospective students and pricing entered an inflationary death spiral.

The answer is that not everyone needs a college education. Trades are a highly profitable career choice these days. It's not even the trades you normally associate with the word I was listening to an NPR piece the other day talking about the shortage of skilled photonics tradespeople. NPR was speaking with folks from MIT and Harvard who are running these 18 month tradesman programs to get the workforce up to snuff. Starting salary? $65,000.

Hell, I worked on UAV's for a decade. That was extremely lucrative as well as interesting, but I could have just obtained my A&P and done the job. I didn't need my bachelors degree. That job starts mechanics at $26 an hour and you can easily upwards of $150k a year if you qualify for the right set of security clearances and travel. Plus it's a path into other defense jobs which pay even more and provide benefits like fully funded post-secondary education.

Those of use who already committed to the degreed course will just have to find a way to deal with it (like working a trade as I did.) The problem is that the "economic experts" just needs to deal with the fallout for a while longer as we "kill" established industries, delay families, and home purchases due to debt loads. All the hand wringing in the world won't change the situation the experts helped create by pushing the anti-trade post-secondary narrative.

Interesting conversation, and thanks to all for keeping it civil. 

I really don't buy the "cars are too expensive now" argument.  I find solid, useable, fun cars all the time on FB Marketplace and Craigslist for under $1,500.00   If kids are interested, they can find fun machines.

Kids don't crave freedom the way they used to.  Maybe they are more cossetted, maybe they are more sheltered, and less willing to take chances.  Maybe they find working with their hands to be "dirty".   Honestly I don't know. 

I do know my older brother and his son changed the timing chain on the nephew's Ford Ranger recently.   Even after feeling the triumph of digging deep into the old Ford and getting it running again....... no interest.  He'd rather spend time looking at crap on his phone.......

Joe Gearin said:

Interesting conversation, and thanks to all for keeping it civil. 

 

I really don't buy the "cars are too expensive now" argument.  I find solid, useable, fun cars all the time on FB Marketplace and Craigslist for under $1,500.00   If kids are interested, they can find fun machines.

Kids don't crave freedom the way they used to.  Maybe they are more cossetted, maybe they are more sheltered, and less willing to take chances.  Maybe they find working with their hands to be "dirty".   Honestly I don't know. 

I do know my older brother and his son changed the timing chain on the nephew's Ford Ranger recently.   Even after feeling the triumph of digging deep into the old Ford and getting it running again....... no interest.  He'd rather spend time looking at crap on his phone.......

Same experience with my neighbor - they replaced the rear main seal on an old Forster together, and after it was done...nuthin. *shakes fist at sky*

Dave M said:

Same experience with my neighbor - they replaced the rear main seal on an old Forster together, and after it was done...nuthin. *shakes fist at sky*

Yep. My son's 02 Exploder needed a fair bit of deferred maintenance when we got it, and he helped me do every bit of it. Didn't stir the slightest interest for him. It's all video games and sports for that kid. Which, honestly, is fine. It'd be nice to have the hobby in common, but I'm not going to get too upset about it. He's a good kid who gets good grades and is happy, so I'm happy.

Joe Gearin said:

I really don't buy the "cars are too expensive now" argument.  I find solid, useable, fun cars all the time on FB Marketplace and Craigslist for under $1,500.00   If kids are interested, they can find fun machines.

We're talking NEW car sales, Joe. Kids that have to/want to drive will always be buying used cars, sure, but the used cars that are available 5 years from now are obviously dependent on what people who can buy new are getting today.

 

In reply to GarageGorilla :

Thanks for going political. I appreciate that about as much as a trip to the dentist.

The always changing regulations on cars isn't helping the appeal of enthusiast cars either. 70 years ago a Jeep would be an appealing vehicle to an adventerous young person. Today, the Mahindra Roxor is an awesome vehicle that definitely appeals to me and many others, but there's a big problem: If I bought one, i couldn't legally leave the dealership.

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

5 years?   Man, to be so lucky!   My first car was 20 years old when I bought it!  :)   Good point though. 

It will be interesting to see how long-lived computer systems will be in cars as they age out.   Many new cars are so digitally integrated that their long-term reliability will depend less on the mechanical bits, and more on how long the operating system works....and if it's supported after it becomes obsolete.  

Will Lexus / Mercedes / BMW / Porsche still carry infotainment systems from 2018 in 2028?, how about 2058?   I dunno..... but it could cause headaches for those attempting to restore an LFA, or i8 in the future.   

In reply to GarageGorilla :

You just posted the perfect storm of willfully ignorant anti-intellectual drivel. I could spend plenty of time running down your non-“urban E36 M3hole” but instead I’ll say - tone it down and leave the attitude at the door. 

Gorilla: I see that you're new here. Politics are not welcome, whether left, right or upside down. I'm interested in your cars, projects, track experiences and such, but I have zero interest in your politics. Poison the waters with that, and the ban will come.

It doesn't seem like it's changed a lot in my lifetime. I was a teenager in the 80's. Decent size high school, 400-ish students. About 20 of us 'car' guys. I only remember maybe half a dozen cars that were in the parking lot. 69 Firebird, 85 IROC, 55 Chevy gasser, Mustang GT. One girl drove a Porsche 914 that no one really liked but it was Porsche so it had to be cool, right? We dreamed of Lamborghinis and Esprits.

I'm the only one of my family that cared about cars much, although Dad had been an old-school hot-rodder before kids. My kids both love cars, chomping at the bit to get licensed, one more year for the eldest. But I think they mainly want the freedom to go places, since we live way out there. (No pizza delivery for us!) I don't see either getting a racing license, although they love loud and fast. They help with repairs any time I offer, even just changing a tire. I hope that doesn't change, especially since their small hands can go places mine can't!

I don't know what any of this means for the future of fun cars built for driving. It seems like there's a plethora available new right now, in any price range.

I'll never have an autonomous vehicle for myself, but my wife can't wait.

GarageGorilla said:

dculberson said:

In reply to GarageGorilla :

You just posted the perfect storm of willfully ignorant anti-intellectual drivel. I could spend plenty of time running down your non-“urban E36 M3hole” but instead I’ll say - tone it down and leave the attitude at the door. 

I bet youre Canadian

Flounder alert...

Also if you know anything about Jack Baruth's politics, you know GarageGorilla got them about as wrong as possible. In fact he'd probably get along with Baruth quite well...

In reply to GarageGorilla :

Politics aside, you're wrong here. It is very obvious that the majority of people in general, not just young people, don't give a single berk about a car as anything other than an appliance. And I live in rural southern Kentucky where everyone grows up knowing they need some sort of car to go anywhere or do anything. 

Kreb said:

Gorilla: I see that you're new here. Politics are not welcome, whether left, right or upside down. I'm interested in your cars, projects, track experiences and such, but I have zero interest in your politics. Poison the waters with that, and the ban will come.

GameboyRMH said:

Also if you know anything about Jack Baruth's politics, you know GarageGorilla got them about as wrong as possible. In fact he'd probably get along with Baruth quite well...

I dont give a damn about Jack Baruth's politics. He is full of E36 M3.

Daylan C said:

In reply to GarageGorilla :

Politics aside, you're wrong here. It is very obvious that the majority of people in general, not just young people, don't give a single berk about a car as anything other than an appliance. And I live in rural southern Kentucky where everyone grows up knowing they need some sort of car to go anywhere or do anything. 

I work in a facility that is populated by younger guys in their 20's and 30's. The place is bursting with Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, WRXs, Foci and Fiesta STs, civic SIs, and loads of other cool cars. 

The0retical said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Those requirements are only there because there's an over supply problem at the moment. The Late Gen-X and early Millennial generations were told that going to college was their ticket to a better life. Colleges responded, aided by guaranteed cheap money from the fed, by raising the price of admission in order to build new facilities to attract those prospective students and pricing entered an inflationary death spiral.

The answer is that not everyone needs a college education. Trades are a highly profitable career choice these days. It's not even the trades you normally associate with the word I was listening to an NPR piece the other day talking about the shortage of skilled photonics tradespeople. NPR was speaking with folks from MIT and Harvard who are running these 18 month tradesman programs to get the workforce up to snuff. Starting salary? $65,000.

Hell, I worked on UAV's for a decade. That was extremely lucrative as well as interesting, but I could have just obtained my A&P and done the job. I didn't need my bachelors degree. That job starts mechanics at $26 an hour and you can easily upwards of $150k a year if you qualify for the right set of security clearances and travel. Plus it's a path into other defense jobs which pay even more and provide benefits like fully funded post-secondary education.

Those of use who already committed to the degreed course will just have to find a way to deal with it (like working a trade as I did.) The problem is that the "economic experts" just needs to deal with the fallout for a while longer as we "kill" established industries, delay families, and home purchases due to debt loads. All the hand wringing in the world won't change the situation the experts helped create by pushing the anti-trade post-secondary narrative.

Is that the problem?  Or is it our fault?  I don’t see young kids out trying to make money anymore.  When I was 5 I sold seeds door to door, later I sold magazine subscriptions.  Ultimately I organized neighborhood kids into yard maintenance and snow removal groups ( I sold the jobs and collected the money). 

I’ve never been without a job and as a result I bought most of the things I wanted.  Cars included. 

Today we parents provide everything including those phones.   But we don’t have them go around to neighbors and mow lawns or rake leaves.  How many kids even have after school jobs?  

Of course they don’t want cars!  Transportation isn’t freedom when it means you have to get a job you’ve never had to pay for something normally given to you.  

You know - we all have different experiences, observations and view the world via slightly different lenses. This to me is ok and maybe even great. My family regularly reminds me, when I share my choices, that I am highly opinionated about what cars and brands (and other things) are good and those that are crap. I agree with them that I do have an opinion and I am happy to hear their's. Sometimes it modifies mine - other times not so.

I would suggest when we read things or hear things we take it as another thought and with a grain of salt. We consider where it comes from and what their motivation for sharing is. We can avoid the constant win/lose game that seems to be gaining popularity among some. 

When all is said and done there are only few things in life really worth fighting over. Maybe you disagree.

llysgennad said:

It doesn't seem like it's changed a lot in my lifetime. I was a teenager in the 80's. Decent size high school, 400-ish students. About 20 of us 'car' guys. I only remember maybe half a dozen cars that were in the parking lot. 69 Firebird, 85 IROC, 55 Chevy gasser, Mustang GT. One girl drove a Porsche 914 that no one really liked but it was Porsche so it had to be cool, right? We dreamed of Lamborghinis and Esprits.

I'm the only one of my family that cared about cars much, although Dad had been an old-school hot-rodder before kids. My kids both love cars, chomping at the bit to get licensed, one more year for the eldest. But I think they mainly want the freedom to go places, since we live way out there. (No pizza delivery for us!) I don't see either getting a racing license, although they love loud and fast. They help with repairs any time I offer, even just changing a tire. I hope that doesn't change, especially since their small hands can go places mine can't!

I don't know what any of this means for the future of fun cars built for driving. It seems like there's a plethora available new right now, in any price range.

I'll never have an autonomous vehicle for myself, but my wife can't wait.

How did you pay for your first cars?  An after school job?  How many kids even have after school jobs anymore?  How many kids mow neighbors lawns, walk their dogs, babysit? 

I can  understand why millennials and etc aren’t into cars.  They don’t see a car as freedom, they see it as having to get a job to pay for something their parents already do for them.  

The0retical said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Those requirements are only there because there's an over supply problem at the moment. The Late Gen-X and early Millennial generations were told that going to college was their ticket to a better life. Colleges responded, aided by guaranteed cheap money from the fed, by raising the price of admission in order to build new facilities to attract those prospective students and pricing entered an inflationary death spiral.

The answer is that not everyone needs a college education. Trades are a highly profitable career choice these days. It's not even the trades you normally associate with the word I was listening to an NPR piece the other day talking about the shortage of skilled photonics tradespeople. NPR was speaking with folks from MIT and Harvard who are running these 18 month tradesman programs to get the workforce up to snuff. Starting salary? $65,000.

Hell, I worked on UAV's for a decade. That was extremely lucrative as well as interesting, but I could have just obtained my A&P and done the job. I didn't need my bachelors degree. That job starts mechanics at $26 an hour and you can easily upwards of $150k a year if you qualify for the right set of security clearances and travel. Plus it's a path into other defense jobs which pay even more and provide benefits like fully funded post-secondary education.

Those of use who already committed to the degreed course will just have to find a way to deal with it (like working a trade as I did.) The problem is that the "economic experts" just needs to deal with the fallout for a while longer as we "kill" established industries, delay families, and home purchases due to debt loads. All the hand wringing in the world won't change the situation the experts helped create by pushing the anti-trade post-secondary narrative.

I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.  

Seriously, working on UAVs sounds fascinating!

frenchyd said:

 

I can  understand why millennials and etc aren’t into cars.  They don’t see a car as freedom, they see it as having to get a job to pay for something their parents already do for them.  

That's often true and makes me sad.