Rules Scheming: NA Engines Under 1800cc For RWD

3TC?

racerfink said:

3TC?

You stole that from my fingertips didn't you?

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

The easy button has to be the Duratech, already made in the millions in 1.8L form, massive, seriously massive aftermarket support and used in literally thousands of competition cars in Europe.  Every build pre-detailed from 'let's put the best OEM bits together for something cheap' to 'Throw your credit card at Cosworth and walk away with a a reliable 300hp soup to nuts in engine management and every conceivable transmission option you want inc integrated with engine management, flappy paddle, the works'

It's the small block Chevy of the UK :)

In reply to L5wolvesf :

A 3TC (and I love them) are the Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch at the 200hp level.

Same goes for any Formula Atlantic motor (4AG etc.)

I'm thinking a Duratec or some other modern motor.

In the "other modern motor" category, is there an easy way to destroke a K20?

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Or does a K20 head fit on a R18 SOHC motor from an 8th gen civic?

Probably not, the R18 has the front of the timing cover integral with the head IIRC.

Was the 1.8 Duratec ever sold on these shores?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In the "other modern motor" category, is there an easy way to destroke a K20?

I cannot imagine the insanity of rev building a Destroked k20 would experience.   Please do that.  

VW 1.8t or VW 1.8 16v? didn't come in RWD, but came in both longitudinal and transverse setups. 

B18 VTEC would be the easy button I'd think, although I'm sure 2ZZ are a bit cheaper used. B series aftermarket is pretty unrivaled. 

Keith Tanner said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

The easy button has to be the Duratech, already made in the millions in 1.8L form, massive, seriously massive aftermarket support and used in literally thousands of competition cars in Europe.  Every build pre-detailed from 'let's put the best OEM bits together for something cheap' to 'Throw your credit card at Cosworth and walk away with a a reliable 300hp soup to nuts in engine management and every conceivable transmission option you want inc integrated with engine management, flappy paddle, the works'

It's the small block Chevy of the UK :)

:)

Having replaced the 'A' series, Ford Kent, 'Rover' V8 and Zetec a prior owners of the 'SBC of the UK' moniker.  

fatallightning said:

B18 VTEC would be the easy button I'd think, although I'm sure 2ZZ are a bit cheaper used. B series aftermarket is pretty unrivaled. 

B18s are not cheap anymore, and while there used to be a rear drive transmission for these (about $8k and drag oriented) I do not think they are made anymore.

aw614 said:

VW 1.8t or VW 1.8 16v? didn't come in RWD, but came in both longitudinal and transverse setups. 

Also off the shelf adapters to SBC, SBF, LS and VQ transmissions. I'd look hard at a 1.8T

In reply to buzzboy :

You can't make much over 200hp reliably with one thanks to the cramped cylinder bores and valve geometry.

BTCC made around 300hp with a 2 liter BUT they started with a V8 head, not a 20v head, and then heavily angle milled them and ported them to the point that they only lasted two or three heat/cool cycles before they cracked and were useless.

I mean, my initial instinct is a "7A-GE" (1.8l 7AFE bottom end, 4AGE top end) because people really know how to make naturally aspirated power with a 4AGE.

But wow, as it turns out, all that stuff is crazy expensive anymore.  And that is just for the engines.  The transmissions are made of unicorn now.

How hard would it be to destroke an FA20?  

Is it possible to de stroke a 3S-GE BEAMS? Plenty of RWD transmission and performance options for those

You can nibble on 200hp na from a B18 in which every part has a Honda PN and have a situation in which a complete new engine is readily available in every wrecking yard. 

Gforce makes a reverse rotation version of the G5 trans spendy but absolutely bomb proof

What size was the Mazda MX-3 V6?

In reply to racerfink :

1.8.  Engine code K8.  They sound ridiculawesome but I do not think they are rear drive friendly.

I mean, signs point to modded BP for availability reasons.  The cams and ITB setup are expensive, but for futureproofing concerns those can be transferred to a new engine.  You might have crazy money in a destroker bottom end for a different engine, and you would need to replace all that the first time you find the limits of your oiling system.

...

Hmm.  How many mod-friendly BMW engines are under 1800cc?  I know you could fall over cam and carb setups for the M10s.

Did they sell a 1.8 Duratec in the US?

In reply to GTwannaB :

I'm thinking maybe they didn't. 

There is a 2zz to E153 adapter out there. Front engine transverse AWD setup anyone? 

I vote destroked K20. A quick google shows TODA makes a 1997cc kit, and a 1.5L K20 was used for land speed stuff. With all the k20/Honda parts available, it should be quite possible and insanely good fun.

87x75.5=1795cc, still way below motorcycle bore/stroke but plenty spicy. Do it for the 'gram.

Curious what you're thinking.  The minimum weight for O2WD NA 1800-4500cc is 950kg, so 2094lbs.  I'm just not sure how you're getting a rally car enough under 2094lbs that being limited to 1800cc is worth it from a rules standpoint?  I'd think a 2094lb rally car is basically near-unachievable anyway?

mr2peak said:

I vote destroked K20. A quick google shows TODA makes a 1997cc kit, and a 1.5L K20 was used for land speed stuff. With all the k20/Honda parts available, it should be quite possible and insanely good fun.

Agreed.  The K motor is like the LS -- if you're swapping a 4-cylinder you need to have a really good reason NOT to use one.