Depending on what you've got available for spraying equipment, you can sometimes get good coverage inside most panels just through existing drain holes, trim clip holes, etc. instead of having to drill new holes.
Depending on what you've got available for spraying equipment, you can sometimes get good coverage inside most panels just through existing drain holes, trim clip holes, etc. instead of having to drill new holes.
rslifkin said:Depending on what you've got available for spraying equipment, you can sometimes get good coverage inside most panels just through existing drain holes, trim clip holes, etc. instead of having to drill new holes.
Yeah, that's what I did on my F-150. There were access holes on the inside of the rocker panels covered in tape. I pulled the tape off, sprayed FF inside there, then put aluminum tape over the holes to seal them better.
I would Fluid Film it myself in my driveway.
Not legal in New York, but there's a shop in Vermont that sprays your undercarriage with heavy oil.
OTOH I know a guy that every time he changes the oil in his 10 wheel dump truck, he fills a Wagner Power Painter with the old oil, shoots the undercarriage, then drives down a dusty road.
Move to Arizona?
Sheesh! This is sounding like a no-win.
On the drive to work the other day I was daydreaming about having a car made out of plastic, fiberglass and carbon fiber
I have been curious about this topic for years. There seems to be a large variance of results.
In my younger years I defaulted to getting the car washed every week and driving to the DIY wash that had a sign claiming their rinse setting was fresh water. Pop the ramps out the trunk. Drive the car up and spray rinse the under carriage. It kept my two Neons to a light surface rust. These days I just do the underbody rinse option at the car wash.
I just remember the paint engineers at Chrysler telling me all the rust preventing ideas are unneeded with modern full body dip primer and powder coat chip coat. Basically the car is more likely to rust inside out. You guys have me giving it second thoughts.
In Canada we used a product called Grease and Graphite, it was a mess in the summer as it leeched out a little but I lived on a dirt road and driveway.
Im Michigan I worked at Zeibart and Zeguard shops. at both of those we put plastic plugs in the holes we drilled and as far as I know never had any rusty spots there. personally I always bought a "Winter Beater" and didnt drive the nice car since the Michigan Quarter Panel Removal Service were over achievers
Advan046 said:I just remember the paint engineers at Chrysler telling me all the rust preventing ideas are unneeded with modern full body dip primer and powder coat chip coat. Basically the car is more likely to rust inside out. You guys have me giving it second thoughts.
A lot of areas do rust from the inside out because of poor design that provides spots for salty water to get trapped or constantly sprayed into an area that's not well protected. That's why spraying inside panels and such wherever you can is important. Coating the exposed surfaces (on top of their existing coating) is still beneficial though, as it reduces the risk of rust in spots where the factory coatings crack or chip over time.
rslifkin said:That holds true in climates where it stays cold enough for the car to stay dry and salty (or icy and salty but not melting). In most of the US, it's not cold enough for that. So unless there's been a dry stretch of weather, the car sits wet and salty (or with slowly melting salt slush on it).
Yeah I never understood the logic of keeping cars outside as a way of rust prevention. The point of salt is to lower the freezing point of water, so if the concern is road salt chances are the salty liquid mixture will remain a liquid far below 32 degrees. Of course if you're in an area where it's regularly below 0 degrees Farenheit maybe that'll work, but then what's the point of putting salt on the road if it doesn't melt ice/snow?
Has anyone tried a marine sacrificial anode on a car? A chunk of zinc electrically connected to a ship hull protects the hull from rusting because zinc oxidizes faster than iron. When it dissolves they bolt a new one in its place. I dunno if it works on cars or not. There may be elec ground issues that keep this from working maybe?
In reply to Jay_W :
That's a really interesting idea... Just read up a little bit on this. For the frame this should work, but I wonder if a lot of other components that face rust are also electrically connected. This is worth trying though, if for no other reason than as an experiment to see how much the zinc has oxidized after a winter. Neat idea!
Uniform exposure is an issue for using an anode. If the salt water/steel interface isnt electrically connected independently, its not going to work, so you would need the whole car you are looking to protect wet at the same time.
So, what if you coated the whole car with zinc? thats galvanizing! would work a treat.
^ lol... you got yerself a point there judge! All-over sacrificial anode=galvanizing
But for them what aren't galvanized.. well heck it prolly doesn't work. So simple a plan, if it did work, everyone would be doing it.
MI guys, I did some searching and found a Krown joint in Monroe. My be better than trying to smuggle undercarriage hydrocarbon based waxy fluids across the Ambassador Bridge. No one will care in the tunnel though.
bcp2011 said:rslifkin said:That holds true in climates where it stays cold enough for the car to stay dry and salty (or icy and salty but not melting). In most of the US, it's not cold enough for that. So unless there's been a dry stretch of weather, the car sits wet and salty (or with slowly melting salt slush on it).
Yeah I never understood the logic of keeping cars outside as a way of rust prevention. The point of salt is to lower the freezing point of water, so if the concern is road salt chances are the salty liquid mixture will remain a liquid far below 32 degrees. Of course if you're in an area where it's regularly below 0 degrees Farenheit maybe that'll work, but then what's the point of putting salt on the road if it doesn't melt ice/snow?
It’s not that the water freezes, but that the rate of the chemical reaction causing the corrosion varies with temp.
Generally chemical reactions slow as temperature drops, so the theory is that corrosion occurs more slowly if the vehicle is kept in the cold, but it still occurs.
No Time said:It’s not that the water freezes, but that the rate of the chemical reaction causing the corrosion varies with temp.
Generally chemical reactions slow as temperature drops, so the theory is that corrosion occurs more slowly if the vehicle is kept in the cold, but it still occurs.
Right, but so does evaporation. Lower temp means lower rate of evaporation, so it means the liquid will linger on the surface for a longer period of time vs. a warmer location like a garage. I don't have evidence one way or another what's the trade off here, but it's far from clear to me that leaving it out is a better alternative, particularly when there are benefits to storing in a garage (much warmer car in the morning, no snow to clean off, etc.)
bcp2011 said:Right, but so does evaporation. Lower temp means lower rate of evaporation, so it means the liquid will linger on the surface for a longer period of time vs. a warmer location like a garage. I don't have evidence one way or another what's the trade off here, but it's far from clear to me that leaving it out is a better alternative, particularly when there are benefits to storing in a garage (much warmer car in the morning, no snow to clean off, etc.)
Exactly. I'll take steps to slow the formation of rust, but I'm not doing anything that makes the car less convenient or useful to me. At the end of the day, it's still just a car. Also, cars stored in garages don't get blasted with UV light all the time, so the paint lasts longer, the interiors hold up better, the rubber/plastic bits on the outside don't dry out, etc.
I leave the ball hitch on my vehicle year round. It gets rusty in the winter. I have tried covering in WD-40, doesn't do anything. Also coated it in fluid film after brushing the rust off, didn't do jack either. $13 snake oil.
Jay_W said:Has anyone tried a marine sacrificial anode on a car? A chunk of zinc electrically connected to a ship hull protects the hull from rusting because zinc oxidizes faster than iron. When it dissolves they bolt a new one in its place. I dunno if it works on cars or not. There may be elec ground issues that keep this from working maybe?
I recall J.C. Whitney selling a kit that did this. It had 3-5 contact points.
wawazat said:MI guys, I did some searching and found a Krown joint in Monroe. My be better than trying to smuggle undercarriage hydrocarbon based waxy fluids across the Ambassador Bridge. No one will care in the tunnel though.
That's over north of Detroit and way out of the way compared to the Lansing Ziebart for me. But I like that they had that study, hopefully not too biased and all
Monroe is south of Detroit and closer to Toledo. No worries though we know you're new to these parts.
In reply to bcp2011 :
I don’t know how much difference you’ll see between outside, inside and unheated garage, or inside a heated garage. I would not park outside as a way to try slow corrosion. My vehicles live outside year round because I have kids and my garage has become a 1 car shed.
Faster evaporation doesn’t really mean it’s better for the car. Since the salt is left behind when the water evaporates it may slow the process, but doesn’t remove the root cause.
Indoors or outdoors probably doesn’t have any measurable effect as long as you minimize exposed metal and rinse away the salt and residue.
In reply to No Time :
Agreed 100%. Even in a dessert metal will still corrode, albeit at a much slower rate, all in the absence of salt. The water is just a catalyst that speeds up the chemical process, so without it it should slow down dramatically, even with salt on the surface. But we're all talking about an issue that we don't have a *precise* answer for (e.g., lower temp vs. higher evaporation), and even if we did have a formula to tell us the precise answer, varying conditions on temp, humidity, salts used, etc. will still not provide a one size fits all solution.
My initial comment was just that I don't understand why some folks swear by the "leave it outside and it won't rust" logic because I didn't think it was clear cut. I think we agree here.
In reply to bcp2011 :
Agreed
wawazat said:Monroe is south of Detroit and closer to Toledo. No worries though we know you're new to these parts.
yeah, well :) thanks for the understanding
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