BobOfTheFuture wrote: Didn't mean the same performance wise. I guess I don't know them well enough, excuse the grumpiness. Next question- If its all of what you guys said, what kept it down? (not being an arse, want to actually know)
I'd say the biggest problem was they'd attempted to build a half priced Ferrari, and succeeded. Trouble is the #1 reason to buy a Ferrari would appear to be to show the neighbors how much you spent.
Gee, that was interesting.
Hey its getting closer. 
it will be "closer" when it's sitting in a showroom w/ a pricetag on it.
Buzz Killington wrote: it will be "closer" when it's sitting in a showroom w/ a pricetag on it.
+1
mtn wrote: It looks boring. I am amazed how Toyota can make anything ugly/boring. If it performs, I'd like it.
hmm....the camry is ugly/boring, the corolla is boring, the last-gen celica was horrible. the latest MR2 was disgusting.
The only really good-looking vehicle sold under the toyota badge currently is the 4Runner. Then again, I'm a bit biased.
then again, my WRX sedan (09) looks like a boring corolla too. But it's about twice as fast :)
Apexcarver wrote:Spinout007 wrote:subaru has changed immensely since the late 80's, so I think your comment may lack merit. My family has had 2 subarus, a 97 legacy wagon and a 04 2.5rs impreza. no real problems with either one.P71 wrote: If Toyota seriously forces Subaru to sell a non-AWD vehicle I will hate them both forever. That is a STUPID idea.My only complaint with a non-awd subie is reliability, if history is any indicator. I had 2 88 subie wagons, one awd, one fwd. The awd one got trashed by someone who ran a red light, I walked away unscathed the subie didn't, (this was before I was into working on cars, then they were a rolling boom box, and that lay down back seat with the wagon body......well I was in high school.) But the awd wagon never gave me any problems, NEVER, go anywhere do anything, pass the lifted 4x4's running through the mud pits. The FWD one, well it was great for awhile, but it had all kinds of cooling problems, motor mounts would break on a whim...first engine I ever rebuilt outside of autoshop class. My dad overheated it, cracked one of the heads, that was my wits end with that car. I like the looks, subie drive train is a plus, sub 20k would be even better, but I wonder if it will go the way of the dodge rwd 15k coupe.....
I'm just gonna have to play devil's advocate here, even though I am a very big fan of Subarus.
Few car companies are immune from quality control issues, and subaru is no different. the 08 STis had fairly well-known ringland problems. The 09 WRXs are having massive engine failures (spun rod bearings from dirty cranks, supposedly) in all the 09 WRXs built in the first 2-3 months of production. ....Over 70 reported cases on one major subie forum alone.
Oh, and mine did it at 9300 miles.
On the upside, Subaru is replacing longblocks and turbos with essentially no questions asked for these failures, and zero known cases exist outside of the first 3 months of production....blame it on a parts supplier, who knows..
Me personally..I don't really care what badge it comes under. If it's a good car it will sell either way. That said, sounds like a car that would get spanked by a slightly-higher-priced WRX in most motorsports (outside of DRIFT YO), and without the AWD to make it versatile and 4-seasons.....
irish44j wrote:mtn wrote: It looks boring. I am amazed how Toyota can make anything ugly/boring. If it performs, I'd like it.hmm....the camry is ugly/boring, the corolla is boring, the last-gen celica was horrible. the latest MR2 was disgusting. The only really good-looking vehicle sold under the toyota badge currently is the 4Runner. Then again, I'm a bit biased. then again, my WRX sedan (09) looks like a boring corolla too. But it's about twice as fast :)
Whoa whoa whoa!!
93celicaGT2 wrote:irish44j wrote: hmm....the camry is ugly/boring, the corolla is boring, the last-gen celica was horrible. the latest MR2 was disgusting. The only really good-looking vehicle sold under the toyota badge currently is the 4Runner. Then again, I'm a bit biased. then again, my WRX sedan (09) looks like a boring corolla too. But it's about twice as fast :)Whoa whoa whoa!!
He described the last Celica as "horrible", the MR-S Spyder as "disgusting" and says only good looking Toyota is the current 4Runner. I don't think that sort of statement is worth getting your dander up about, really, right? RIGHT?
pres589 wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote:He described the last Celica as "horrible", the MR-S Spyder as "disgusting" and says only good looking Toyota is the current 4Runner. I don't think that sort of statement is worth getting your dander up about, really, right? RIGHT?irish44j wrote: hmm....the camry is ugly/boring, the corolla is boring, the last-gen celica was horrible. the latest MR2 was disgusting. The only really good-looking vehicle sold under the toyota badge currently is the 4Runner. Then again, I'm a bit biased. then again, my WRX sedan (09) looks like a boring corolla too. But it's about twice as fast :)Whoa whoa whoa!!
Haha, i'm good. 
I kindof share his sentiments about the new lineup, although i am intrigued by the new Matrix XRS/Corolla XRS.
I'm still not sold on the last Celica's looks, despite the fact that it's an amazing car in it's own right.
Just looking for an excuse to throw one of my favorite "dream" cars out there. (MRS w/ hardtop.)
No dander here.
FWIW I think he's right too. The last MR2 was horrible looking, no matter how you tart it up.
93celicaGT2 wrote:irish44j wrote: hmm....the camry is ugly/boring, the corolla is boring, the last-gen celica was horrible. the latest MR2 was disgusting. The only really good-looking vehicle sold under the toyota badge currently is the 4Runner. Then again, I'm a bit biased. then again, my WRX sedan (09) looks like a boring corolla too. But it's about twice as fast :)Whoa whoa whoa!!
He described the last Celica as "horrible", the MR-S Spyder as "disgusting" and says only good looking Toyota is the current 4Runner. I don't think that sort of statement is worth getting your dander up about, really, right? RIGHT?
of course, I am referring to these vehicles in stock trim....
and don't get me wrong, my subaru is ugly too....
I would think that on this forum, we wouldn't get too concerned with commentary on car looks. After all....performance > looks 100% of the time.
Pretty cars are for people who want attention :)
In regards to the Corolla/Matrix XRS, I liked it a LOT better with the 1.8L 2ZZ than with that 2.4L tC motor.
I hope to find a used 1.8L XRS in 10 years or so.
I don't care if it is marketed to my father's generation, I still think it's gorgeous, and I would buy it.
lower power, but lower weight...sounds good to me.
Hood lines look like jag xk?
It's getting uglier and less powerful by the month...
Yea it looks like a previous gen jag xk mated with a solstice. This car sounds lame to me now. Can't someone make a small rwd basic fun car that's affordable?
Toyota still sucks in my books.
My favorite quote of the article:
"As such, they've changed the cars demographic from the coveted, if not fanciful, 18-35 year-old range to the more-likely-to-actually-buy-stuff 30-50 year-old male range."
I actually still dig it. 180hp and lighter! The hp shortage will easily be overcome.
That is the one thing i agree with, i'm totally fine with less power and less weight. Power isn't everything, if you look at some of the best cars, they could handle and were light but didn't make huge power but used it well. Plus power is like the easiest thing to upgrade on a car.
irish44j wrote: Pretty cars are for people who want attention :)
I like cars with nice lines so I can look at them myself. I actually get embarrassed if somebody checks out a car I am driving. I absolutely love the lines of the ej and ek civic hatches, even though they are just humble econ boxes. I think it shows that people who design cars at honda give a E36 M3. I hate the fact my ek hatch gets attention (much of it criminal), but I love looking at it covered in smashed bugs and dust on some open west fishing/hauling ass on empty secondaries road trip.
oh, and supposedly if Subaru decides to bring it here, it will be with the US market 2.5 liter which has a bit more power than the JDM 2.0...
I will take mine with the WRX 2.5 turbo...
still want one 
So its been a while. Any one hear any news. Nothing from the Frankfurt auto show?
Lower weight? That's interesting. I just hope they don't old-dude it up with paddle shifters or anything
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