S197 or early 997 for a fun/track/autox car?

So I got a wonderful phone call yesterday, waiting for final confirmation tomorrow but it looks like I'll have an absolutely fantastic job lined up for me.  So now instead of pinching pennies, in the near future I'll be able to have a proper track car.  This will be in central/south Florida (Sebring, to be exact, moving in two months) and my wife and I plan on having a dedicated track car.  Here's my choices:

2012 Mustang GT:  My current car.  It's been well cared for, has 65K miles, has that monster Coyote engine and can fit 315s on all corners.  Mods aren't cheap, but are reasonable.  For autocrossing and some track days at Sebring, I see it like this:  huge tires (positive) but expensive tires (negative) and a heavy car (big negative) but huge power (positive) and just adding headers, an intake and a tune will get me pushing 500 crank horsepower (huge positive).  Header install is kind of a nightmare though.  Upgrade to factory brembos is cheap (excellent brakes there), and some racing seats will drop 100 pounds.  Still a heavy car.  Big, heavy, sounds great, amazing engine.  If I chose this it would end up with 315s on all corners, coilovers, watts link, brembo front brakes, racing seats, rollbar, 5 or 6 point harnesses, intake/tune/headers (already have full exhaust) maybe a few other things.

Early 997 Porsche 911.  S if I can find one for a good price.  More expensive to modify and maintain (negative), weighs a LOT less (positive), better handling out the box (positive), can fit big tires but needs smaller ones compared to the Mustang (less money there), less overall power potential (negative), I love how they sound (positive) much more aerodynamic (positive) turbo brakes are a direct swap (positive, but equal to mustang basically).  And most importantly, it's a Porsche.  Now, I am a Porsche fanatic, I owned a 1978 911SC and totally fell in love with Porsche from that car, and I've driven newer ones and loved them as well.  If I chose this it would get intake/headers/exhaust, coilovers, turbo brakes, racing seats, roll bar, GT3 aero, etc the same basic mods.  

I feel the Mustang might be a bit faster overall because of that ridiculous coyote engine and a bit cheaper in terms of parts and mods (maybe), but the Porsche has that wow factor for me.  And it's lighter, and lighter cars are awesome.  3600 pounds is a lot of car.  I think I would prefer the Porsche, mostly because I just love the cars and the brand, but 500hp on 315s does sound pretty amazing.  I've considered a 996, even with their issues - I've found 996s in great shape with the IMS bearing fixed for $17K - but if I'm getting this job it makes more sense to just get a 997 without those issues.  I'm trying to plan this and save my money towards the proper decision.  Overall I'm strongly leaning towards a 997, but if they somehow suck on a track then I don't want to abandon my S197 - and I've read all the Vorshlag stuff and I know how fast the S197 can be.

What say you, fellow GRMers?  The big, loud, heavy, super powerful brute?  Or the more svelte, better handling sexmobile?

Your self described sex mobile is my vote 

I guess I'm curios how you arrived at these options. Sounds like you've got a fairly large budget and are willing to put some money into upgrades. So why stop at early 997s with potential engine issues? I'd at least want a 997.2 base for the better engine and slightly bigger brakes. Or if you're willing to risk the engine it looks like the S got the same slightly larger brakes from the beginning. 997s definitely don't suck on track, but those two options are going to drive very differently so it's up to you to decide which is more fitting for you. I'd guess as far as outright speed the mustang with all the upgrades you proposed would be a bit faster, if a bit intimidating with that much power.

Dedicated track car, as in not to be driven on the street?  In that case, I would start by thinking about safety. Full cage, containment seat, etc. Nothing improves driving skills like the security that comes with proper safety.  At that point, I would want something that could fit into race spec easily.  In a race series that has lots of other drivers. If you want to race, you have that option.  If you don't you'll get more for the car when you sell it. 

If you follow this thought pattern, Mustang is the easy choice. 

But if you just want an HPDE car to drive 8/10, get the 997. They're pretty special. Better yet, try to work the budget for a 981 Cayman S. All the Porschiness, reliable as a hammer. 

dps214 said:

I guess I'm curios how you arrived at these options. Sounds like you've got a fairly large budget and are willing to put some money into upgrades. So why stop at early 997s with potential engine issues? I'd at least want a 997.2 base for the better engine and slightly bigger brakes. Or if you're willing to risk the engine it looks like the S got the same slightly larger brakes from the beginning. 997s definitely don't suck on track, but those two options are going to drive very differently so it's up to you to decide which is more fitting for you. I'd guess as far as outright speed the mustang with all the upgrades you proposed would be a bit faster, if a bit intimidating with that much power.

I believe I remember reading some stuff about early engine issues so 997.2 would probably be the option.  If I can swing it, an S model.  However even the 996 is appealing to me - I've found ones in excellent shape with the IMS bearing fixed for $17K and I'm totally down for that.  Less power and ugly headlights but I'd still be racing a Porsche, which is kinda the dream.  Budget isn't unlimited but I'll have some free cash, enough for a solid (used) track car.

If it helps anyone with the financial aspects of this, I'll be living in south florida with no state income tax, a house payment of $1,000/month or less, and after a few months of training I'd be making just south of $100K/year.  Most of that extra money would be invested for an early retirement but I definitely want to budget 20-30K for a track car, that would probably also get driven on the street from time to time out of sheer fun.  So money isn't unlimited but I'll be bringing in solid cash and even after monthly investing I'll have play money.  Autocrosses at least once per month, if the money is flowing then probably twice per month, and then when I can some HPDE days at Sebring, which is about $4-500 with Chin I believe.  I'm probably overthinking this and should just get the Porsche because it's my dream car, but I've been living on pennies for so many years and I'm a penny pincher anyways so I'm just trying to be smart about this.  Newer Mustangs aren't really cheap to mod like older Mustangs so performance parts aren't going to be too different in prices.  The one thing is I already own the Mustang, which obviously saves a lot.  But if I'm making really solid money and I'm looking at living the dream, the Porsche wins hands down.  But I'm cautious at jumping at that decision, because honestly I do love my Mustang and that engine is an absolute BEAST.  But then again a 997.2 with all bolt ons and a bit of weight reduction will probably accelerate just as fast, and have a higher top speed because it doesn't have the aerodynamics of a concrete block.  

Also my wife really wants an old Boxster for her first autocross car, so we could have a Porsche family.  Hey, gotta justify it somehow, right?

dps214 said:

I guess I'm curios how you arrived at these options. 

been a Porsche fanatic since birth, currently own and love a 2012 Mustang GT.  Both excellent cars with lots of potential.  

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

Dedicated track car, as in not to be driven on the street?  In that case, I would start by thinking about safety. Full cage, containment seat, etc. Nothing improves driving skills like the security that comes with proper safety.  At that point, I would want something that could fit into race spec easily.  In a race series that has lots of other drivers. If you want to race, you have that option.  If you don't you'll get more for the car when you sell it. 

If you follow this thought pattern, Mustang is the easy choice. 

But if you just want an HPDE car to drive 8/10, get the 997. They're pretty special. Better yet, try to work the budget for a 981 Cayman S. All the Porschiness, reliable as a hammer. 

Probably wouldn't be a 100% track car.  I would take it out for some fun weekend stints.  Having either one of these cars built up, I couldn't resist driving around on weekends.

The s197 brakes can need to be done every 2 weekends.  Different compounds will help, but I tended to try to wring everything out of it.

the trans is the weak link on the mustang. Otherwise, you'll have a hard time hurting it really.  
 

The Porsche upkeep may be an issue, or at least the Porsche tax will come to play I'm sure.

I also love Porsches but being that you already have the Mustang it gets my vote.  That is a very capable chassis.  Get something else as a daily and you can strip massive amounts of weight out of that car.  I would love to upgrade to a S197 or S550 from my SN95.

This isn't one of your options but for a track car in your price range I don't see how you can look past a C5/C6 Corvette.  Huge aftermarket, cheap parts, proven powerplant, etc, etc, etc.

Go for the dream car. Life is short. 

996 engine problems don't end with a fixed IMS, they just start there.  I've had several friends have catastrophic engine failures in their M96 powered Boxsters/Caymans/996's on track, even tho they've done the AOS/IMS/oil pans etc.

I just don't trust that motor on the track.  I'd get a 997.2 all day long over one, or a 996 Turbo.

I think I'd just stick with the Mustang. Relative to the Porsche I imagine it would be inexpensive to run.

Call Terry at Vorshlag. 

Build Mustang.

Win at life. 

#tigerblood

Which is your biggest priority -- going fast?  handling fun?  winning your class?  daily drivability?  driving a cool car?  spending as little as possible?  etc.

997

"It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up." and I can tell from your initial post this is what you really want.

If you don't have the means the Mustang will be fun too. Although if I was going this route, I would sell the 2012 and buy a 2015+. Same great engine, much better chassis.

You want the Porsche, you just feel bad about it because the Mustang is already in your garage. We're here to tell you it's ok. Go buy the car that makes you giggle most. What else are fast cars for?

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

YOLO 

987.2 cayman s could be an option. 

And congrats!

yupididit said:

987.2 cayman s could be an option. 

 

And congrats!

It's an option, but for his situation I'm not sure it poses any real positives over the 997 aside from being a few bucks cheaper to buy. But that margin is pretty small and there's probably more 997.2s out there to pick from. Even the non-S 997.2 is faster than the 987.2S in a straight line and has bigger brakes. At least on paper the weight difference is pretty small and the 997 should have more potential for weight reduction. If he's concerned that the 997 power is going to be disappointing, the cayman definitely isn't the answer.