sacrificial anodes

I was curious if anyone here uses a sacrificial anode(SA) in their cooling system? My cooling system is working good now and I'd like to keep it that way and was thinking it might be worth using an SA. I read something about using one in either the GRM or CMS mag or online and was curious how to put on one. I have access to whatever material I could ever want as far as metals go so that isn't an issue, although I'm sure I could find one through a supply store.

The reason I'd like to install one is my radiator is unique to two cars both of which weren't officially imported to the US, meaning $$$$, I don't even want to talk to the dealer. If it gets chewed I get screwed or have to have a custom one made.

Just curious if any of you folks have any experience with these things.

I run them in my boat cooling system(salt water), I don't think I have ever seen them on a car though. All the metals in the system should be grounded together which should alleviate the need for a SA

benzbaron wrote: I was curious if anyone here uses a sacrificial anode(SA) in their cooling system?

[...]

Just curious if any of you folks have any experience with these things.

No, I don't....but I know that many of them use zinc for the metal.

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Cooling/Cooling_Suggestions/

streetrodstuff.com said: When running an aluminum radiator or any aluminum parts in contact with the water jacket, make sure to run a sacrificial anode (usually zinc) to prevent the electro-displacement of the aluminum. This will save the aluminum parts, in short.

I have seen them in Alfas. Having grown up around boats running in saltwater, I always thought they were a great idea

I wonder if it would make a damned difference with a brass radiator then? Back to the periodic tables and electronic potential table to see if it would made a difference.

Toyman01 wrote: I run them in my boat cooling system(salt water), I don't think I have ever seen them on a car though. All the metals in the system should be grounded together which should alleviate the need for a SA

SA's deal with ion transfer between the metals and related materials in a cooling system, and the water in the cooling system trying to pull electrons away from those metals. Feed the water a little copper off of an easily replaced rad cap and hopefully an expensive radiator or intake manifold, et cetera could be saved from corrosion by the coolant.

Ground straps aren't going to really change anything here.

pres589 wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I run them in my boat cooling system(salt water), I don't think I have ever seen them on a car though. All the metals in the system should be grounded together which should alleviate the need for a SA

SA's deal with ion transfer between the metals and related materials in a cooling system, and the water in the cooling system trying to pull electrons away from those metals. Feed the water a little copper off of an easily replaced rad cap and hopefully an expensive radiator or intake manifold, et cetera could be saved from corrosion by the coolant. Ground straps aren't going to really change anything here.

The ion transfer is between dissimilar metals and happens due to an electrical current from a noble metal like steel or ss to an ignoble metal like aluminum or zinc through a liquid to a ground. Grounding all metals together gives the current an easier route to travel and significantly reduces the ion transfer. Boats left in water have all metals grounded together and then tied into a SA. This causes the galvanic current to travel the ground system and leave through the SA causing the corrosion to happen at the anode. The metals in a car are already grounded together. The currents will travel the path of least resistance through the grounds and not through the coolant. Rotary engines have been known to have corrosion problems due to the iron and aluminum housings being insulated from each other due to the o-rings. Common cure is to ground all the housings together. Solves the corrosion problem and as a side benefit better ignition to boot.

Check a table to find a more negative or positive metal to save the one with corrosion problems. The more negative and positive metals will drive the galvanic reaction and will leave the less potential metals (ie closer to 0). Check the differences between the Fe, Cu, and Zn reactions in the linked chart and you'll see why the zinc becomes the sacrificial anode. ( I think thats how it goes, it's been a while.)

Zinc anodes can be found at most real plumbing supply houses, there used in hot water heaters. McMaster sell them too.

JC Whitny used to sell rad caps with a 2 inch zinc anode dangling form the end. Don't know if they still do its been years since i looked at there catalog.

44

So in theory part of the reason the GM 4.3L/5.0L/5.7L has been know to destroy the driver rear of the intake manifold at the coolant crossover is the fact that the coil wire rests against a coolant hose on the passenger rear of the engine and it flows to the opposite side. The coil wire bleeds positively charged shocks through the rubber jacket into the coolant inside the hose and becomes an accellerant for the ionic transfer allowing the ferrous metal to degrade. (?)

I have witnessed personally an S10 grounding into a coolant hose. If this theory is correct I may have just solved a LOT of GMs Dexcool Related problems as well.

I'll do some research and post a reply if I find anything interesting. If you think of the positive ground to the chassis you know there is potential in an older car because the grounds start wearing out. Given that and the dissimilar metals I think it might be a good idea to flush out this idea. If it doesn't work out I'm out what 10$ for an anode verses $$?? for a radiator if I can find one.

At one time you could send a radiator to Griffin Racing radiators and they would make you a new one from the dimensions of the old one. Aluminum or brass and copper.

Easy install version:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flex-a-lite/400/32060/10002/-1

Griffin can definitely make you a radiator. Might still be big $ but at least the option's there.

even easyer.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2000879/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2000879/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=anode

they have the screw in type too. cheaper then jegs

Cool thanks for the suggestions. I'm just playing a game of stayin alive right now with the benz. I use it a couple time a week and don't want it to go to hell right away, I'm just trying to buy some time until I get the money/ambition to take it on.

Thank you again and those things are just what I wanted. I might make my own still but I have an idea now.

Putting off flushing out your cooling system can not only cost you in the end but could leave you stranded. The cooling system in cars is almost always one of the first to start having problems. Basically because the antifreeze mixed with water creates a battery like environment in the coolant system. This is because of the different metal alloys in the coolant path. You can literally take a voltmeter and hold one end on the chassis and the other in the radiator fluid and get a voltage reading. Close to three volts is a good indication there is serious rust activity going on, but if you have an aluminum block its normal. Years ago, I was going to tap into my radiator with a drilled, fitted, insulated lead that simply ran one wire to an LED mounted somewhere in my dashboard. Because you can get LED’s in the 2volt range, when your radiator is in need of a flush and change, it would start to glow. One wire goes to chassis ground of the car, and the other to your homemade sensor in the radiator. It has to be done right as your radiator is under pressure when hot and you can’t afford leaks. No circuits or electricity needed it’s a simple basic idea I came up with.

Flushing your radiator with harsh chemicals can end up costing you a head gasket. This is because the thin aluminum on that gasket is the weakest link in the electrolysis process. (FYI, Rust is an electrolysis process and can be stopped with electricity) Why they don’t do this in the making of the car, and add one more dummy light is beyond me, the way you usually find out your coolant system is failing is when your car overheats and leaves you stranded somewhere, and possibly blowing a hose or thermostat. No your car wont run when it overheats, your fuel turns to vapor and it vapor locks.

Of course all of this can be avoided if you get the system rinsed out and changed twice a year living in areas with heavy temperature changes, or once a year if you live in a stable climate. In hot wheather, you want a water / coolant mix because water has a higher boiling point then antifreeze. Cold climates call for more or all antifreeze. I grew up in very cold climates so –40 weather calls for straight antifreeze and even then, you might end up popping out freeze plugs or cracking an engine block.

Probably the best idea yet, that apparently not even radiator shops know about is the Zinc anode. Just like on boats, sacrificial Zinc is used to take the brunt of the electrolysis process. Zinc anodes are even used in your hot water heaters and on boats. Basically, by introducing the zinc into the coolant system, it stops the electrolysis process. This is a chunk of zinc mounted on an insulator on to a small cable with a large hook so you can immerse it in your radiator fluid without it falling inside. The insulator prevents electrical connection between the zinc and ground, otherwise it wouldn’t work. They last about one to two years and the zinc slowly widdles away, but stops rust activity dead in the system. The only place I know that sells them is JC-Whitney. JC-Whitney also sells kits that mount under your car and draw a small electrical current that stops the whole car from rusting.

I've used the JC Whitney ones in my vehicles before. I don't think I have any in my current fleet. I've been using Toyota Red coolant which has a lot of anti corrosive stuff in it. If I recall, my old 220D had a JC Whitney one in it's radiator neck.

On the big ships, they have zinc bars welded onto the hull, usually at the stern near the screw. I was on one ship that had one of those active systems, but we never turned it on. I think we were kinda afraid of what might happen if we did.