"Save The Manuals"? Or, why I can't sell my cars anymore.

I actually felt some relief when my wife decided she was tired of shifting gears and wanted an automatic for her next daily. Why? Because I historically have sold our cars privately and am finding it nigh impossible to find buyers for stick shift cars that aren't outright sports cars (or, oddly, Subarus). Selling the Forester was only a mild struggle. Getting rid of my beater Focus was far more difficult than I expected...for a car with a $1500 price tag. Now I'm finding it nearly impossible to get a buyer interested in my wife's cast off Jeep Patriot. To be fair, the 182,000 miles doesn't help but a far bigger deterrent is a potential buyer stopping to look at it, then seeing the shifter and doing an abrupt about-face.

Miatas, Mustangs and BMWs aren't hard to move with a manual gearbox because they are enthusiast cars. Normal daily transportation though is another story. I'm afraid I'll have to give this thing away for peanuts far below the KBB pricing just to get it out of my driveway. The public just isn't interested in rowing gears anymore.

I have been saying the same thing.  Non-sporty cars with manual transmissions must be really hard to sell because the asking prices of these manuals vs their auto counterparts is really low.  

I am in the middle of this right now as I am trying to find an "appliance grade" car for a family friend.  However, I think it will not fly trying to convince the buyer to go with a manual trans.  Though they should the attitude will be, "why should I do all that work when an auto will do the work for me."

One car that really has drawn my attention is Ford Fiesta trunk models with manual trans.  These were first offered in 2011 and the same model is still available in showrooms.  With 110k, I see low option 2011 Fiesta trunk manuals as low as $4k all the time.  That really strikes me as a bargain.   

'07 and newer Nissan Versa with manual trans also seem to have significantly lower asking prices than their auto trans counterparts.  Add to this the Scion tC.  This is also hampered by not really being sporty and being only 2 doors too so immediately you have eliminated all shoppers with kids/car seats.  

Not sure how you are advertising it since I can't see your ad, but I would make sure it stated in your ad and on the jeep itself that it has a manual transmission. I know that when I'm shopping for a vehicle if it doesn't state that it has a manual transmission or it doesn't mention what type of trans it has I will pass it by without even looking further at the ad or the vehicle(too many autos out there to waste my time). Especially on an unloved jeep model. It's going to take that special person looking for a manual to see that stated in the ad before they will come out to take a look. Plus that will get rid of the majority of the time wasters that won't consider a manual. 

Which is weird for me. I actively seek out manuals. I've passed on complete cream puffs because it had an automatic. As long as a stick is a choice in that car,  it's my only choice. I'd even consider swapping in a stick in a car that never had one. ( I'm looking at you, Crown Vic.)

Yeah, I'm wierd.

I had a Volvo 850 sedan with a 5 speed. I got it for a song due to the manual. I sold it for a pittance due to that same gearbox.

I used to be a die-hard manual trans guy, but I always owned cars that handled pretty well.  My love for all things manual died when I bought a 6MT Tacoma 4x4 and I was so completely underwhelmed.  Sure, I could rev match into 2nd for an upcoming turn, but the turn that came after the rev-match was so sloppy.  

How about,

"RAER COLLECTABLE JEAP WITH STIK SHIF TRANS !!!!!"

volvoclearinghouse said:

How about,

"RAER COLLECTABLE JEAP WITH STIK SHIF TRANS !!!!!"

WILL TRADE FOR CAMERO.

I'm not sure why you're surprised. 

If I was driving a normal appliance, I have no desire to row gears either. My commute to work consists of all surface streets at 45mph or below, with lots of stoplights and traffic. Driving a manual doesn't make that "engaging" or anything.

I think that it's part of the overall trend where technology has cut down on the negatives associated with things like slushboxes and made performance and luxury non-exclusive. You can by a SUV that does 0-60 in 3.3 for christ sake. 

Appleseed said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

How about,

"RAER COLLECTABLE JEAP WITH STIK SHIF TRANS !!!!!"

WILL TRADE FOR CAMERO.'

Not really related, my wife owns a Camaro, and when we had our first child she also got a Suburban.  I write them as 'Camero' and 'Suburben', which I find hilarious and she just sort of shakes her head at.

z31maniac said:

I'm not sure why you're surprised. 

If I was driving a normal appliance, I have no desire to row gears either. My commute to work consists of all surface streets at 45mph or below, with lots of stoplights and traffic. Driving a manual doesn't make that "engaging" or anything.

I can confirm that.  Went from a manual fiesta to an auto focus, and it changed exactly zero.  Well, other than getting better gas mileage.

The only people who desire manual cars are ones that just want a manual for the sake of having a manual.  People who thought they needed them for gas are finding that it's not worth the effort.  So manuals are being pigeonholed right with sports car drivers.  And even many of them are happier with paddle, since the pretend racer looks more modern (NASCAR is the only big racing that uses a stick to change gears)

Its not about going fast or saving gas.  You're there.  In the car.  May as well do something with yourself while you're there.  Use that big brain of yours.  Fire some neurons.  I prefer a manual Sam I am, in car, in a truck, in van, in a can.  What do I do with my hands now?

8valve said:

Its not about going fast or saving gas.  You're there.  In the car.  May as well do something with yourself while you're there.  Use that big brain of yours.  Fire some neurons.  I prefer a manual Sam I am, in car, in a truck, in van, in a can.  What do I do with my hands now?

So you don't use your brain to move a car down the road and not hit anyone?  No wonder people text and drive.

(BTW, for my commute, I would not shift for 20-30 min depending on the speed of traffic.  So a manual does nothing.)

This is good news for me if its true that manuals are getting devalued..  I still haven't seen that to be the case with what I look for.

I do use the brains, just not quite as much in an auto.  And I drove a manual with a heavy clutch in los angeles bumper to bumper traffic.  And I no longer do.  And I miss it.  I have not hit anyone in 25ish years of driving every day here thank you very much. 

alfadriver said:

I can confirm that.  Went from a manual fiesta to an auto focus, and it changed exactly zero.  Well, other than getting better gas mileage.

The only people who desire manual cars are ones that just want a manual for the sake of having a manual.  People who thought they needed them for gas are finding that it's not worth the effort.  So manuals are being pigeonholed right with sports car drivers.  And even many of them are happier with paddle, since the pretend racer looks more modern (NASCAR is the only big racing that uses a stick to change gears)

I wouldn't say that.  Even with the gas mileage effectively out of the equation I dare say there's more reason to want a manual than just to have a manual.  

Some people, maybe not you, but some, prefer shifting gears for themselves.  It really doesn't take much effort.  It keeps you at least partially focused on what you're doing.  As you pointed out tongue in cheek, maybe all those people who text and drive are simply bored with driving.  Even if you're not shifting, a part of you is always alert to the fact that they may be a need to shift.  

Then there's the reliability aspect.  Even new cars that offer a manual transmission usually do so at a discount.  Why?  Given the obvious advantages automatics have in terms of volume, they ought to be the value play.  But no, manuals are cheaper to buy upfront.  I would guess the reason is because they are simpler, and therefore, cheaper to make, than an automatic.  And as an engineer myself, I know that one of the immutable laws of engineering is this:  Given two systems to accomplish exactly the same task, the simpler a system, the less of a chance of failure it has.  

Finally, I know some people for whom car theft is a real concern.  Guess which car is less likely to get stolen, all other things being equal.  Yup- thieves are too stupid and lazy to shift their own gears.  

https://youtu.be/AismFDcA0Kk

Maybe should start listing manual transmissions under theft deterrent device. Maybe that will get some people interested.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

See, that's my point- if you want a manual to shift gears on your own, then you are getting a manual for the sake of it being a manual.  And that's fine, if you want to.  But that group of people is SO very small that it's actually more expensive to get the cheap transmission.  Which is the same reason you don't see any manuals in most cars even offered- it's not worth the money.

If my drive was more interesting, I would love to do my own gear shifts. But my drive, along with a huge majority of commuters out there, have mind numbing drives to work relative to driver engagement.  I loved my Miata as I could take the top down, which then made the drive a whole lot different.  

You are right on the relative failure rates between autos and manuals.  it's just that the failure rate is so very small that consumers don't even notice (for the most part).  The work it takes to change that eventually worn clutch is the same to maintain any auto these days.  Basically, even if autos had a 2:1 failure rate disadvantage, nobody would care.  Or more correctly, the only people who do care are on boards like this one.

On a different board, I've seen people complain about the new 8 and 10 speed transmissions that they must be a nitemare to work on.  Which I don't doubt they are. But I just don't see work on them for most consumers.  They are just that good.  So while the argument is valid, it's not important.  

For a normal car, truck, SUV manual doesn't make sense. So yeah, it would be hard to sell a car like that. 

However, for literally every performance car it's the opposite. 

volvoclearinghouse said:

How about,

"RAER COLLECTABLE JEAP WITH STIK SHIF TRANS !!!!!"

You misspelled "COLLECTABLE".

Make your mind numbing commute a little less mind numbing.  Even if you never get out of 1st gear at least you're actuating the clutch with every crawl forward.  Being more engaged in the act of driving your vehicle, how can that be a bad thing.  How many crashes are there every year from folks falling asleep.   THE MANUAL IS DEAD!  LONG LIVE THE MANUAL! 

In reply to alfadriver :

If I a searching for the next 2K hooptie, I absolutely want a manual, simply because it's far less likely to be neglected and abused.

tuna55 said:

In reply to alfadriver :

If I a searching for the next 2K hooptie, I absolutely want a manual, simply because it's far less likely to be neglected and abused.

I agree with your first point, but not the second.  I've driven someone else's Miata a long time ago, who didn't know how to shift.  What a mess the clutch and trans were.  Manuals are far more susceptible to bad drivers- between the clutch and the syncros- they can really be messed up.

On top of that, I find modern manuals have such little feel, that drivers have no idea if they are doing it right or not.  

In reply to alfadriver :

True, but if it's really in bad shape, you should be able to tell that on a test drive.  

There's another point to consider: you can't bump-start an automatic  (at least none I've seen.)  That little fact might just get you to work for a few days till you can fix the dead starter.